I’m gonna call it like I see it. That post, from 2012 – the phrasing and runaround of incest-not-incest-gen-not-gen-intense-relationship, and even the punctuation style, it’s all identical to the current account trying to pimp out this idea. They’re using the very same replies like a copy paste marketing agent. They struggled to sell the idea back then and they’re trying to re-sell it now, and it’s going to get approval from the same people it got in 2012. Remember when I did a backlog search and said most of its usage cropped up in 2012? It was around that thread. Prior to that, there were a grand total of two fics, one in 2005 and one in 2006, tagged that.
That post epicentered around trying to convince people “Gencest” was a name for existing Sam & Dean fiction while trying to parallel it to Destiel fanfics, if I remember the wanky pages I viewed correctly. It was an inflationist cheesy competitional rhetoric that other people were going “Dafuq?” back in 2012 and they’re doing it now because it never took off beyond about a dozen fics after that.
This whole “It’s an old fandom guard! You must live under a rock! Everybody knows!” elitist attitude is particularly hilariously bad because this is literally a repeating cycle. Nobody knew then and barely anybody knew about it now. The strangest form of gatekeeping I ever-did-see: “If you don’t know about this tag, which has been used on less than 30 fanfics from the dawn of time and is even casually mentioned only 420 times on the entire internet, you’re not a tru old guard fan, everybody knows.” – That’s more of a really-bad-attempt at insult to injurious action against people blockading out the topic effectively with blacklists, which is the true issue at hand here, while otherwise kidnapping away S&D fics that might BE harmless into the wanky pile from people who would otherwise read it if it isn’t incesty.
No fam, your moderately-among-your-own-closest-friends-kind-of-locally-successful-tag-from-2012 is not definitive of “old fandom” or “things everybody knows.” And if your reach ends there, that kind of says a lot.
Bruh
“Everybody knows! The power of the old fandom compels you!”
Bruh
And half of that is you telling everybody they should know what it is.
1. interesting theory that seems to make sense given that they were also terrible back then at defending it as just genfic
sound familiar?
“And half of that is you telling everybody they should know what it is.”
RIGHT? like damn. i did a google search and legit most of the results were people asking wtf it meant
ITS NOT A WELLKNOWN TERM
like damn even teens know what “slash” means, and it’s not widely used as much anymore. it has nothing to do with being old and everything with weirdly forcing everyone to accept a term you made up.
OWN
IT
And that’s not even tackling what’s behind your first cut. Seriously, chriss. Take your first cut. Take the answers. Side by side both the confusion from people then, and the answers being given by the person endorsing it then and you have a verbatim, pretty much copy-paste set of conflicting answers just like back then, in 2012, when nobody knew what it was either, before generating half of the google responses asking “dafuq?” and answering back. You know, that swimming number I posted up there.
It’s someone that’s trying to hack and slash (pun) their way into having some ancient ass tag. Bro, lmao, no. I could probably find some complete crack tag from 05-06 that was on 1-2 fics, but I promise you if I had revived it 7, or now 13 years later acting like it was some ancient fandom lore because I tried to boot the idea and failed five years ago, everybody would be calling that shit out too.
Atop the truly, dangerously problematic issue in this (exposure to triggers with poorly defined and conflicting descriptors and/or theft-away of potential clean material that people will avoid because of the poorly defined and conflicting descriptors that are trying to avoid the trigger content), the ridiculous and outright looney part of this is pretending that because someone got a dozen close friends using it 5 years ago it’s some Founding Fathers Tradition Everybody Knows And Clearly You’re Just A Noob If You Don’t.
Your friend group does not define the fandom. I can not cite this enough.
And GBang would try to clap back “yours neither!” but no, actual yielded content, history, and digital receipts speak it pretty well.
*rubs temples* i just…. there’s just not enough of it to justify calling it an old fandom term. like in, what, two years? the small pair of sam/rowena is more than what gencest is. and it’s been around for waaaay less than gencest.
91! 9. 1. ninety-one fics on ao3. that’s not counting what’s floating on here.
“your friend group does not define the fandom”
perfect example: we both know people who tried to make jmj, a newer version of j2m, a thing. and did it ever take off? no. i literally knew i had to explain that acronym because it didn’t. a handful of people at most know what it is. and if they tried five years down the road to insist that it’s an old well-known fandom term, people are going to have the same “tf is that” reaction you’re seeing with confused people re gencest
(except not really the same because people are objecting to more than just the name now; now it’s the behavior and who it’s being marketed towards)
Yes, this. Exactly. The JMJ thing. We know who made it. We know a lot of personal friends that used it for a little while. But we’re not huffing enough crack to claim you’re a newbie or somehow not-ITK for not knowing it, but funny enough-
As niche and cracky as JMJ’s usage is, and as much humility as you displayed in calling that point out, its usage is about 125x higher than “Gencest”. Let that sink in.
Now, I will argue that even with the “Supernatural” word quoted, there may be some arbitrary image string letters coming in and the ilk, and realistically scrolling through the results we can see they aren’t all SPN so-
I gave it a whole other qualifier, an extra threshold of search clarification above what was given to theirs and
Oh. Wild.
Wait.
So there’s 3 more results for “SPN”+”J2M”+”JMJ” than there even are “gencest.”
JMJ, of course, being a term started about a year ago, casually, among one limited friend group and their immediate contacts.
Old guard must have some really lax usage. And if you’re worried, you can reclarify the results. I just put this in the google field: "JMJ"+“Supernatural”+“J2M”
This of course requires all three clearly and got 340 results. It’s fucking wild. Almost like gencest is a non-idea someone keeps remarketing and trying to convince people is ancient history when it isn’t.
Never was. Never will be. That, or you can go tell Sissa her tag is secretly super fandom famous and everybody knows it, and she just didn’t know it.
oh my god i— the term has been around for a year and it’s on par with what they’re claiming is an old fandom term
The worst thing is I legit know that was like, IDK, maybe five people that dedicated to use the term when it started. They used it recurringly for a few months here or there, maybe talked a few other people into using it temporarily, and that was it. And it reached that same capacity, including being listed on SuperWiki, since that’s being flagged around like some indicator of Ancient Authority.
Also if you check the respective tags, JMJ on tumblr turns up a variety of results but a bunch are SPN of… JMJ! If you check Gencest, there’s…. three Wincest fics, wank about this, and an unrelated post. There’s legit nothing else. Now, once this bang goes off, there may be a whole… I dunno! Maybe a dozen tagged posts! Before it wanes into oblivion.
In fact, SUPER DUPER wild, for this being an “old fandom” thing that “everybody knew”, while there are legit like no posts about gencest on tumblr before this hot mess, the “platonic wincest” topic we’ve heard them arguing for the last year or two DOES have a bunch of posts. WILD. Wasn’t she saying that’s what it was? Platonic Wincest? Or is it something different now? Because she danced that about 52 times. But boy, I guess those hundreds of “Platonic Wincest” posts on tumblr are all people that live under rocks according to their standard. Oh, and Kelios and Angie. They must live under rocks too, because IIRC, they’ve been using “Platonic Wincest” and not “Gencest” frequently.
There is zero realistic universe where this has ever been a tag, title, or object of popularity. And frankly, they know it too. A few probably embarrassedly checked after heckling a “LOL DO U LIVE UNDER A ROCK” at some folks, realizing they hadn’t heard it either and realizing it isn’t a thing. They’re just arguing it to argue at this point, while gencest bang lies through their teeth about the ancient fandom origins of the term, the mightiness of its reach, et cetera et cetera. You know, the ancient thing that isn’t on twitter, tumblr, livejournal, ffnet, google…
honestly, i don’t want to accuse them but why do i have the feeling given their responses on sm that their intent was to only attract wincest shippers that they knew would flock to it because of our pushback?
I’m gonna call it like I see it. That post, from 2012 – the phrasing and runaround of incest-not-incest-gen-not-gen-intense-relationship, and even the punctuation style, it’s all identical to the current account trying to pimp out this idea. They’re using the very same replies like a copy paste marketing agent. They struggled to sell the idea back then and they’re trying to re-sell it now, and it’s going to get approval from the same people it got in 2012. Remember when I did a backlog search and said most of its usage cropped up in 2012? It was around that thread. Prior to that, there were a grand total of two fics, one in 2005 and one in 2006, tagged that.
That post epicentered around trying to convince people “Gencest” was a name for existing Sam & Dean fiction while trying to parallel it to Destiel fanfics, if I remember the wanky pages I viewed correctly. It was an inflationist cheesy competitional rhetoric that other people were going “Dafuq?” back in 2012 and they’re doing it now because it never took off beyond about a dozen fics after that.
This whole “It’s an old fandom guard! You must live under a rock! Everybody knows!” elitist attitude is particularly hilariously bad because this is literally a repeating cycle. Nobody knew then and barely anybody knew about it now. The strangest form of gatekeeping I ever-did-see: “If you don’t know about this tag, which has been used on less than 30 fanfics from the dawn of time and is even casually mentioned only 420 times on the entire internet, you’re not a tru old guard fan, everybody knows.” – That’s more of a really-bad-attempt at insult to injurious action against people blockading out the topic effectively with blacklists, which is the true issue at hand here, while otherwise kidnapping away S&D fics that might BE harmless into the wanky pile from people who would otherwise read it if it isn’t incesty.
No fam, your moderately-among-your-own-closest-friends-kind-of-locally-successful-tag-from-2012 is not definitive of “old fandom” or “things everybody knows.” And if your reach ends there, that kind of says a lot.
Bruh
“Everybody knows! The power of the old fandom compels you!”
Bruh
And half of that is you telling everybody they should know what it is.
1. interesting theory that seems to make sense given that they were also terrible back then at defending it as just genfic
sound familiar?
“And half of that is you telling everybody they should know what it is.”
RIGHT? like damn. i did a google search and legit most of the results were people asking wtf it meant
ITS NOT A WELLKNOWN TERM
like damn even teens know what “slash” means, and it’s not widely used as much anymore. it has nothing to do with being old and everything with weirdly forcing everyone to accept a term you made up.
OWN
IT
And that’s not even tackling what’s behind your first cut. Seriously, chriss. Take your first cut. Take the answers. Side by side both the confusion from people then, and the answers being given by the person endorsing it then and you have a verbatim, pretty much copy-paste set of conflicting answers just like back then, in 2012, when nobody knew what it was either, before generating half of the google responses asking “dafuq?” and answering back. You know, that swimming number I posted up there.
It’s someone that’s trying to hack and slash (pun) their way into having some ancient ass tag. Bro, lmao, no. I could probably find some complete crack tag from 05-06 that was on 1-2 fics, but I promise you if I had revived it 7, or now 13 years later acting like it was some ancient fandom lore because I tried to boot the idea and failed five years ago, everybody would be calling that shit out too.
Atop the truly, dangerously problematic issue in this (exposure to triggers with poorly defined and conflicting descriptors and/or theft-away of potential clean material that people will avoid because of the poorly defined and conflicting descriptors that are trying to avoid the trigger content), the ridiculous and outright looney part of this is pretending that because someone got a dozen close friends using it 5 years ago it’s some Founding Fathers Tradition Everybody Knows And Clearly You’re Just A Noob If You Don’t.
Your friend group does not define the fandom. I can not cite this enough.
And GBang would try to clap back “yours neither!” but no, actual yielded content, history, and digital receipts speak it pretty well.
*rubs temples* i just…. there’s just not enough of it to justify calling it an old fandom term. like in, what, two years? the small pair of sam/rowena is more than what gencest is. and it’s been around for waaaay less than gencest.
91! 9. 1. ninety-one fics on ao3. that’s not counting what’s floating on here.
“your friend group does not define the fandom”
perfect example: we both know people who tried to make jmj, a newer version of j2m, a thing. and did it ever take off? no. i literally knew i had to explain that acronym because it didn’t. a handful of people at most know what it is. and if they tried five years down the road to insist that it’s an old well-known fandom term, people are going to have the same “tf is that” reaction you’re seeing with confused people re gencest
(except not really the same because people are objecting to more than just the name now; now it’s the behavior and who it’s being marketed towards)
Yes, this. Exactly. The JMJ thing. We know who made it. We know a lot of personal friends that used it for a little while. But we’re not huffing enough crack to claim you’re a newbie or somehow not-ITK for not knowing it, but funny enough-
As niche and cracky as JMJ’s usage is, and as much humility as you displayed in calling that point out, its usage is about 125x higher than “Gencest”. Let that sink in.
Now, I will argue that even with the “Supernatural” word quoted, there may be some arbitrary image string letters coming in and the ilk, and realistically scrolling through the results we can see they aren’t all SPN so-
I gave it a whole other qualifier, an extra threshold of search clarification above what was given to theirs and
Oh. Wild.
Wait.
So there’s 3 more results for “SPN”+”J2M”+”JMJ” than there even are “gencest.”
JMJ, of course, being a term started about a year ago, casually, among one limited friend group and their immediate contacts.
Old guard must have some really lax usage. And if you’re worried, you can reclarify the results. I just put this in the google field: "JMJ"+“Supernatural”+“J2M”
This of course requires all three clearly and got 340 results. It’s fucking wild. Almost like gencest is a non-idea someone keeps remarketing and trying to convince people is ancient history when it isn’t.
Never was. Never will be. That, or you can go tell Sissa her tag is secretly super fandom famous and everybody knows it, and she just didn’t know it.
oh my god i— the term has been around for a year and it’s on par with what they’re claiming is an old fandom term
I’m gonna call it like I see it. That post, from 2012 – the phrasing and runaround of incest-not-incest-gen-not-gen-intense-relationship, and even the punctuation style, it’s all identical to the current account trying to pimp out this idea. They’re using the very same replies like a copy paste marketing agent. They struggled to sell the idea back then and they’re trying to re-sell it now, and it’s going to get approval from the same people it got in 2012. Remember when I did a backlog search and said most of its usage cropped up in 2012? It was around that thread. Prior to that, there were a grand total of two fics, one in 2005 and one in 2006, tagged that.
That post epicentered around trying to convince people “Gencest” was a name for existing Sam & Dean fiction while trying to parallel it to Destiel fanfics, if I remember the wanky pages I viewed correctly. It was an inflationist cheesy competitional rhetoric that other people were going “Dafuq?” back in 2012 and they’re doing it now because it never took off beyond about a dozen fics after that.
This whole “It’s an old fandom guard! You must live under a rock! Everybody knows!” elitist attitude is particularly hilariously bad because this is literally a repeating cycle. Nobody knew then and barely anybody knew about it now. The strangest form of gatekeeping I ever-did-see: “If you don’t know about this tag, which has been used on less than 30 fanfics from the dawn of time and is even casually mentioned only 420 times on the entire internet, you’re not a tru old guard fan, everybody knows.” – That’s more of a really-bad-attempt at insult to injurious action against people blockading out the topic effectively with blacklists, which is the true issue at hand here, while otherwise kidnapping away S&D fics that might BE harmless into the wanky pile from people who would otherwise read it if it isn’t incesty.
No fam, your moderately-among-your-own-closest-friends-kind-of-locally-successful-tag-from-2012 is not definitive of “old fandom” or “things everybody knows.” And if your reach ends there, that kind of says a lot.
Bruh
“Everybody knows! The power of the old fandom compels you!”
Bruh
And half of that is you telling everybody they should know what it is.
1. interesting theory that seems to make sense given that they were also terrible back then at defending it as just genfic
sound familiar?
“And half of that is you telling everybody they should know what it is.”
RIGHT? like damn. i did a google search and legit most of the results were people asking wtf it meant
ITS NOT A WELLKNOWN TERM
like damn even teens know what “slash” means, and it’s not widely used as much anymore. it has nothing to do with being old and everything with weirdly forcing everyone to accept a term you made up.
OWN
IT
And that’s not even tackling what’s behind your first cut. Seriously, chriss. Take your first cut. Take the answers. Side by side both the confusion from people then, and the answers being given by the person endorsing it then and you have a verbatim, pretty much copy-paste set of conflicting answers just like back then, in 2012, when nobody knew what it was either, before generating half of the google responses asking “dafuq?” and answering back. You know, that swimming number I posted up there.
It’s someone that’s trying to hack and slash (pun) their way into having some ancient ass tag. Bro, lmao, no. I could probably find some complete crack tag from 05-06 that was on 1-2 fics, but I promise you if I had revived it 7, or now 13 years later acting like it was some ancient fandom lore because I tried to boot the idea and failed five years ago, everybody would be calling that shit out too.
Atop the truly, dangerously problematic issue in this (exposure to triggers with poorly defined and conflicting descriptors and/or theft-away of potential clean material that people will avoid because of the poorly defined and conflicting descriptors that are trying to avoid the trigger content), the ridiculous and outright looney part of this is pretending that because someone got a dozen close friends using it 5 years ago it’s some Founding Fathers Tradition Everybody Knows And Clearly You’re Just A Noob If You Don’t.
Your friend group does not define the fandom. I can not cite this enough.
And GBang would try to clap back “yours neither!” but no, actual yielded content, history, and digital receipts speak it pretty well.
*rubs temples* i just…. there’s just not enough of it to justify calling it an old fandom term. like in, what, two years? the small pair of sam/rowena is more than what gencest is. and it’s been around for waaaay less than gencest.
91! 9. 1. ninety-one fics on ao3. that’s not counting what’s floating on here.
“your friend group does not define the fandom”
perfect example: we both know people who tried to make jmj, a newer version of j2m, a thing. and did it ever take off? no. i literally knew i had to explain that acronym because it didn’t. a handful of people at most know what it is. and if they tried five years down the road to insist that it’s an old well-known fandom term, people are going to have the same “tf is that” reaction you’re seeing with confused people re gencest
(except not really the same because people are objecting to more than just the name now; now it’s the behavior and who it’s being marketed towards)
I’m gonna call it like I see it. That post, from 2012 – the phrasing and runaround of incest-not-incest-gen-not-gen-intense-relationship, and even the punctuation style, it’s all identical to the current account trying to pimp out this idea. They’re using the very same replies like a copy paste marketing agent. They struggled to sell the idea back then and they’re trying to re-sell it now, and it’s going to get approval from the same people it got in 2012. Remember when I did a backlog search and said most of its usage cropped up in 2012? It was around that thread. Prior to that, there were a grand total of two fics, one in 2005 and one in 2006, tagged that.
That post epicentered around trying to convince people “Gencest” was a name for existing Sam & Dean fiction while trying to parallel it to Destiel fanfics, if I remember the wanky pages I viewed correctly. It was an inflationist cheesy competitional rhetoric that other people were going “Dafuq?” back in 2012 and they’re doing it now because it never took off beyond about a dozen fics after that.
This whole “It’s an old fandom guard! You must live under a rock! Everybody knows!” elitist attitude is particularly hilariously bad because this is literally a repeating cycle. Nobody knew then and barely anybody knew about it now. The strangest form of gatekeeping I ever-did-see: “If you don’t know about this tag, which has been used on less than 30 fanfics from the dawn of time and is even casually mentioned only 420 times on the entire internet, you’re not a tru old guard fan, everybody knows.” – That’s more of a really-bad-attempt at insult to injurious action against people blockading out the topic effectively with blacklists, which is the true issue at hand here, while otherwise kidnapping away S&D fics that might BE harmless into the wanky pile from people who would otherwise read it if it isn’t incesty.
No fam, your moderately-among-your-own-closest-friends-kind-of-locally-successful-tag-from-2012 is not definitive of “old fandom” or “things everybody knows.” And if your reach ends there, that kind of says a lot.
Bruh
“Everybody knows! The power of the old fandom compels you!”
Bruh
And half of that is you telling everybody they should know what it is.
1. interesting theory that seems to make sense given that they were also terrible back then at defending it as just genfic
sound familiar?
“And half of that is you telling everybody they should know what it is.”
RIGHT? like damn. i did a google search and legit most of the results were people asking wtf it meant
ITS NOT A WELLKNOWN TERM
like damn even teens know what “slash” means, and it’s not widely used as much anymore. it has nothing to do with being old and everything with weirdly forcing everyone to accept a term you made up.
OWN
IT
during that whole genfic that isn’t genfic fiasco today, i overlooked this reply to me
couple points here:
“it can’t be retroactively changed when it’s already part of the fandom lexicon”
i want a show of hands how many people know what the term lemon/lime means. no? how about the significance of whose name comes first in slash pairings?
see, that’s the thing about fandom. it grows with society. hell, i never see younguns refer to their m/m fic as slash fics anymore. it’s just… fic with queer romance. so YES, you CAN change old fandom lexicon. THATS HOW LANGUAGE WORKS
“you could call it hard gen […] but that’s not supernatural specific and you’ll have to clarify”
here are some suggestions:
bro bond genfic
winbro genfest
wingenfic
sam&dean genfest
and that was just off the top of my head. no clarification needed.
also hate to break it to ya but the suffix -cest comes from the word “incest”. w*incest shippers did not create the word “incest” and do not own it. slapping on -cest and acting like it makes it safe for general fandom consumption is not ok
LMAO i was looking for more info on this and i came across people being against it or confused even in 2012:
Okay, about this “g*ncest” thing that just cropped up which makes me feel like I splintered back to the year 2006 and aren’t we over this by now…what that is is a bona fide example of toxic masculinity attitudes at work and being valorized by a small number of fans, mostly female.
I was largely ignoring the discourse around this—some people don’t understand the term, or they don’t like Wincest and react angrily to anything dealing with it or its shippers—but this was presented as “I know we should be over this and here’s why,” so let me write a rebuttal.
This will also act as a way to talk about the genre a little bit more for those who may not understand.
Dear Gencest Mod Thank you for such a well reasoned and patient rebuttal.
I 100% endorse everything you’ve said here, and admire that you stayed completely objective throughout. I would also point out that the term gencest is not something that has just suddenly popped up, it’s certainly been around for as long as I’ve been in SPN fandom (c2009).
Thank you! I try not to get engaged with fandom wank, but the misinformation of both the term and our intentions, and how disproportionately angry folks appear to be over it confused the heck outta me, ha!
You’re totally correct in Gencest’s history (though I think it may go back even to the beginning of the fandom c2005/c2006) and that’s what matters. This fic writing challenge is for people who already love Gencest and I’ll be focusing on just that from now on.
Besdies, knowing our dear fandom, something will happen at a con and the old drama machine will move on from a tiny fic challenge.
It should surprised exactly nobody that someone from a certain fanbase is throwing tantrums even about a gen ficathon and also still trying to make it all about THEIR ship and bawwww feel sorry for how we’re badly WE’RE treated. It’s like clockwork with them.
we’ve been perfectly calm and reasonable.
you are also missing the point and deciding that this is about a ship war. no one gives a shit about whether it’s w*ncest or not. people don’t want triggery ships thrown in their face. the issue also is this
if this big bang isn’t for people who love the bro bond minus the *ncest, it’s NOT gen
y’all wanna write w*ncest lite, have at it! tag appropriately and call the spade a spade. i couldn’t care less that you ship it, truly.
i love the bro bond, as do most people. the issue here isn’t some ship war or hate for the bros. we just don’t want -cest slapped onto everything to do with sam&dean and we especially don’t appreciate this insistence that -cest means something other than *ncest
Ah yes, gen that is but isn’t gen and incest that is but isn’t incest but is totally not incest and totally for the incesters but totally gen, but incest. And they don’t see why people have issue with its tagging. Tagging is designed to keep people safe. Intentionally circumventing them, trying to make it ambiguous – just like this ridiculous dance-about word play – is incredibly cruel to people who have efficiently blotted it out of their feeds. Yes. Cruel. Just because a few people got away with calling it that on a back corner blog – emphasis on a few, a whole 2 fics 2005-6, 3 by 1 person on DA 2 years ago and a few smattered around – doesn’t mean it should be promoted and highlighted as a new, brighter, shinier way to circumvent proper tagging.
You want to write non-explicit Wincest? Go for it! That’s great. You want to write explicit incest? Go for it! Just tag your ship appropriately. But it’s not not-incest because they’re not explicitly fucking in the Impala, and if that’s where your vision of “gen” is, it honestly explains a fuck of a lot of things.
This just in guys, go ahead and write your nonexplicit DeanCas romance and suggestive fics as gen. Works by their standard. Seeing as DeanCas has one of the lowest explicit rankings on Ao3, that qualifies most of their work as “gen” by this new, shiny, ridiculous standard. And seeing as DeanCas isn’t a r*pe or *ncest ship or other similar trigger, you’re actually not impeding nearly as much. Have at it. DeanCas up that gen. Because clearly, gencest thinks if it isn’t explicit it’s gen, apparently.
exactly! for example, i wrote a sabriel fic that didn’t have kisses or sex and only a slight hint of romance and was only a bit more than what’s show canon. but i was honest and i tagged it sabriel because that’s what i intended it to be.
Okay, about this “g*ncest” thing that just cropped up which makes me feel like I splintered back to the year 2006 and aren’t we over this by now…what that is is a bona fide example of toxic masculinity attitudes at work and being valorized by a small number of fans, mostly female.
I was largely ignoring the discourse around this—some people don’t understand the term, or they don’t like Wincest and react angrily to anything dealing with it or its shippers—but this was presented as “I know we should be over this and here’s why,” so let me write a rebuttal.
This will also act as a way to talk about the genre a little bit more for those who may not understand.
Dear Gencest Mod Thank you for such a well reasoned and patient rebuttal.
I 100% endorse everything you’ve said here, and admire that you stayed completely objective throughout. I would also point out that the term gencest is not something that has just suddenly popped up, it’s certainly been around for as long as I’ve been in SPN fandom (c2009).
Thank you! I try not to get engaged with fandom wank, but the misinformation of both the term and our intentions, and how disproportionately angry folks appear to be over it confused the heck outta me, ha!
You’re totally correct in Gencest’s history (though I think it may go back even to the beginning of the fandom c2005/c2006) and that’s what matters. This fic writing challenge is for people who already love Gencest and I’ll be focusing on just that from now on.
Besdies, knowing our dear fandom, something will happen at a con and the old drama machine will move on from a tiny fic challenge.
It should surprised exactly nobody that someone from a certain fanbase is throwing tantrums even about a gen ficathon and also still trying to make it all about THEIR ship and bawwww feel sorry for how we’re badly WE’RE treated. It’s like clockwork with them.
we’ve been perfectly calm and reasonable.
you are also missing the point and deciding that this is about a ship war. no one gives a shit about whether it’s w*ncest or not. people don’t want triggery ships thrown in their face. the issue also is this
if this big bang isn’t for people who love the bro bond minus the *ncest, it’s NOT gen
y’all wanna write w*ncest lite, have at it! tag appropriately and call the spade a spade. i couldn’t care less that you ship it, truly.
i love the bro bond, as do most people. the issue here isn’t some ship war or hate for the bros. we just don’t want -cest slapped onto everything to do with sam&dean and we especially don’t appreciate this insistence that -cest means something other than *ncest
Okay, about this “g*ncest” thing that just cropped up which makes me feel like I splintered back to the year 2006 and aren’t we over this by now…what that is is a bona fide example of toxic masculinity attitudes at work and being valorized by a small number of fans, mostly female.
Adding onto this, because I apparently missed a whole extra limb of this that’s actually patronizing and devaluing genfic. The g*ncest enthusiasts think the -cest has to be tacked on otherwise it won’t be emotionally intense enough and this is why the term was created and g*ncest is just gen but emotionally intense enough and what thehell did I just read
Adding onto this, because I apparently missed a whole extra limb of this that’s actually patronizing and devaluing genfic. The g*ncest enthusiasts think the -cest has to be tacked on otherwise it won’t be emotionally intense enough
That actually wasn’t written anywhere on our social media as it true! You can actually go back and check if you like. Please do not put false words in our mouths. The -cest was added on to show that it’s Sam and Dean specific gen.
and this is why the term was created and g*ncest is just gen but emotionally intense enough and what thehell did I just read
I would like to know that as well, because a lot of false statements are being thrown around here. Do you have a link? Because pretty much everyone knows the -cest in Gencest means Sam & Dean and it’s borrowed from the romantic pairing name of Sam and Dean.
how did you even find this post?
secondly, idgaf what y’all wanna describe it as, adding -cest to everything sam&dean is not ok if it’s not supposed to be incestuous.
“pretty much everyone knows”
nope nah uh they don’t. everyone i’ve come across is confused af. and just because some may know that, it doesn’t make it ok nor does it make SENSE.
also if it’s supposed to be about their bond, why did you tell my friend that it isn’t for her and why did someone else tell me the same thing? that’s exclusionary and indicates that something incestuous is happening.
“Pretty much everybody knows,” they defend, while over the course of 14 years of fandom there’s only been 421 mentions of it anywhere google is capable of data-mining. Compared to say, 500K+ W*ncest mentions or heading towards 7 million Destiel mentions. Of course, stalking mentions didn’t help them findthis post where all of this old guard concept already got laid on its ass.
You’re from a small lane of W*ncest shippers that have tried repeatedly to find ways to destigmatize the *ncest element and failed pretty swimmingly. You’re going to end up with the same crowd you have every time. This is a PG-13 *ncest fic competition, let’s not mince words, especially as once you hit any sort of romantic framing, it isn’t even gen. Hard pass.
i don’t understand why they can’t just own up to it or change the name. it can’t be both w*ncest and not.
The most ridiculous part is pretending this is some broad wash though. As I mentioned in the post I linked, even pro-W*ncest “BNF”s in that lane have been arguing “platonic *ncest” by that name, not gencest, for at least a year. People here “since the beginning”. Wild that they’re cropping up pretending this was some “all along” thing even though the internet just doesn’t have receipts of it being widespread, even on old platforms like livejournal, which I independently mined usage of and got 200~ results, mostly casual mentions, mostly from 2k12~. It’s not old guard. It’s not old fandom. It’s niche shenanigans and nothing more. They wanna write PG-13 incest? Fine, whatever fam, but call a spade a spade, stop trying to normalize it, don’t simultaneously kidnap real gen fics, this isn’t fucking hard to understand.
Call a spade a spade.
it’s a new term for spn fandom, definitely. i’ve been in quite a lot of fandoms ever since my family got dial up. i’m familiar with the term. but it’s antiquated. even the term “slash” is getting up there with being outdated because lgbt+ relationships in general in society have become much more accepted.
can you imagine destiel shippers doing this? even other destiel shippers would call it out.
Okay, about this “g*ncest” thing that just cropped up which makes me feel like I splintered back to the year 2006 and aren’t we over this by now…what that is is a bona fide example of toxic masculinity attitudes at work and being valorized by a small number of fans, mostly female.
Adding onto this, because I apparently missed a whole extra limb of this that’s actually patronizing and devaluing genfic. The g*ncest enthusiasts think the -cest has to be tacked on otherwise it won’t be emotionally intense enough and this is why the term was created and g*ncest is just gen but emotionally intense enough and what thehell did I just read
Adding onto this, because I apparently missed a whole extra limb of this that’s actually patronizing and devaluing genfic. The g*ncest enthusiasts think the -cest has to be tacked on otherwise it won’t be emotionally intense enough
That actually wasn’t written anywhere on our social media as it true! You can actually go back and check if you like. Please do not put false words in our mouths. The -cest was added on to show that it’s Sam and Dean specific gen.
and this is why the term was created and g*ncest is just gen but emotionally intense enough and what thehell did I just read
I would like to know that as well, because a lot of false statements are being thrown around here. Do you have a link? Because pretty much everyone knows the -cest in Gencest means Sam & Dean and it’s borrowed from the romantic pairing name of Sam and Dean.
how did you even find this post?
secondly, idgaf what y’all wanna describe it as, adding -cest to everything sam&dean is not ok if it’s not supposed to be incestuous.
“pretty much everyone knows”
nope nah uh they don’t. everyone i’ve come across is confused af. and just because some may know that, it doesn’t make it ok nor does it make SENSE.
also if it’s supposed to be about their bond, why did you tell my friend that it isn’t for her and why did someone else tell me the same thing? that’s exclusionary and indicates that something incestuous is happening.
When searching for gencest on twitter to encourage those talking about signing up for the Bang this was presented as a ‘I’m not piling on, but’ post that I felt warranted a level reply.
Not everyone knows what ‘smarm’ means, and different people have different definitions of anti-shipper (the one in dotthings’ post is just one, but not the most widely used). I don’t think you should use you not understanding it as evidence that others do not.
I didn’t tell dotthings it isn’t for her, she said she doesn’t like it. You are obviously upset about it, so I think it’s logical to assume you don’t like it?
I’ve already explained where the -cest comes from in Gencest and have corrected the misusage numerous times by now so I won’t reiterate, but you can look back on my other post if you didn’t see it. I will say again signing up is completely optional! You’ll never have to sign up for something that makes yo uncomfortable or doesn’t make sense to you.
“Not everyone knows what ‘smarm’ means” and that’s why dot took the time to explain it and why it’s antiquated
and signing up isn’t the issue. it’s this insistence that the suffix -cest means JUST TWO BROS. it DOESNT. y’all wanna write winc*st lite. fine by me. but own up to it or change the name.
I also took the time to explain Gencest. In fact, that’s what my entire post is about. Gencest isn’t antiquated if its still in usage, which is also what others have been complaining about.
Those who write Wincest will write Wincest, but if they’re signing up for the Gencest Bang they’ll be writing Gencest for it. I write Wincest. I’m not ashamed of that. But this isn’t Wincest, so I won’t call diamond a spade.
Did you read my post? in the portion you reblogged I made a note to say I wouldn’t explain the definition again (I explained it, I think, 5 times in the original post), but you can read the original post if you’re hankering for an explanation.
It exerts a lot of energy to respond to what you don’t initially understand with anger. It also makes things messy, as you can see.
ok, look, idk of you read everything dot wrote or what i’ve been writing literally every where here and on twitter but let me try to put it in real life terms
my sister and i have a relationship similar to sam and dean. i’m the oldest sibling that had trouble seeing how i shouldn’t defend our father’s actions. i tried to shield her from harm as much as possible growing up as we grew up in an abusive household. i’d get beat for something she did when i was supposed to be watching her. we are adults that are so close, she goes to me about topics that may be uncomfortable for siblings to discuss because she lives in a plain community (she doesn’t subscribe to most of the other ideals out of clothing and parts of religion) and she obviously can’t talk to her plain friends about it.
would you attach a -cest to that? no! so why do that with fiction?
i’m not uncomfortable with “intense emotional” fics. i LIVE it. i have a problem with you trying to dress up w*ncest as something Fandom Family Friendly
again: own up to the slash fest. don’t try to dress it up in something it isn’t.
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