One thing certain “discussions” keep bringing up: our allowance of background ships/pairings.
You know what? They’re BACKGROUND, and in any properly fleshed out world, there are people interacting with and surrounding your main characters, doing their own things, forming friendships, falling in love, living their lives.
Do you expect us to force people to ignore Mary/Bobby? What if during Christmas dinner, Claire is present, and someone mentions Dark Kaia? What if someone has Dean tease Sam about a waiter/waitress who flirted with him, or vice versa?
The brothers do not live in an empty cosmos where only they exist, and forcing writers/artists to not acknowledge the lives around them is not in the spirit of this challenge. We’re allowing for show-realistic violence and swear words, with a hard PG13 limit.
And once again, the works are to be PLATONIC BROTHERS CENTRIC.
If people can’t accept those rules, there are other challenges out there.
-Mod H
Why on Earth would anyone WANT Sam and Dean to be isolated and alone like that, living in a vacuum? The characters don’t even want that. Adding to their lives does not take away from their friendship and sibling relationship with each other. It’s not a competition or ‘choose: me or them’ (that’s abuse).
Your rules are simple, why is this an issue? There wasn’t a safe challenge that focused on them but without allowing incest shipping or overtones. You created one. This isn’t like there’s a rule “no heterosexual/slash pairings”, it’s “no incest”, which shouldn’t be a point being argued and rallied for but look where we are.
Let people have things even if they don’t cater to you, you sound like Dudley Dursley screaming about presents otherwise.
I mean, if Sam and Dean are your faves, I would think you’d be happy people are squeeing and writing happy fics centered around them, but because other characters exist in their lives… you’re mad? How does this make sense?
there are two things that get me about this whole thing: them being mad because someone did exactly what they said to do and being angry that incest isn’t allowed
the mods took up the challenge directed at them. that’s such a silly thing to be mad about. i mean they all seemed pretty ecstatic the other day about the idea
and the whole point of the challenge was it to be a safe challenge for those that are triggered or simply don’t want incest in their bro fics. OBVIOUSLY THEY ARENT GOING TO ALLOW IT IN THE CHALLENGE
this isn’t a ship war thing. it’s a “we don’t want to include a trigger” thing. it’s such a normal thing to want that i’m gobsmacked at people railing against it.
they have all their other fic/art stuff. let us have this one thing, PLEASE.
i encourage everyone to write those fics and art that art anyway. this is for those wanting a fun positive bro thing. don’t let the nasties discourage you from having fun and loving the bros (and their family).
November 14th, 2017, we heard it, clear as a bell,
Fandom name/icon changes abroad ensued. Things happened. It was during the IStandWithJ2 mess too, so it turned into I Stand with Peanut Butter, some people debated ship names, I believe it was Nut2 that won.
Hundreds, nay, thousands of peanut butter names and icons flushed through twitter and continued on for days, enduring even through Tombstone, leaving Brokebacknatural tagged rambling about sleepy bears, underbears, and peanut butter.
Of course, some people weren’t there immediately during the explosion, and it caused some initial confusion when people logged on in the morning.
Even Jensen had to ask what was up.
So it turned into photo ops (op credit is also to 1WaywardSister, I don’t know her tumblr.)
It’s November 13th and I see it already in my mentions again.
So like… if you missed this, and your friends start all changing their name to peanut butter tomorrow, now you know.
I mean, this is the fandom that turned Dessies into the Lock Dess monster and Destiheller into a biker gang patch with a slogan and now Delievers, so IDK what they really expected out of that.
they’re really good at giving us memes
remember destielence? ahh good times
what a long day
i don’t really wanna go into it publicly atm because i don’t want to feed more fuel into it because i’m too exhausted to talk about my own emotions that their behavior caused. i’ve been up since 8am est yesterday. for reference right now it’s almost 9pm est. it’s just weighing on me and i need to type it out somewhere public. and believe me, i’ll talk more about it when i’m not falling asleep on my dinner and feeling emotional. they haven’t neutered me into silence. i just need rest.
but anyway, i just wanna say… treat others with the respect you loudly demand of yourself. you can’t demand that you be left alone and then continue to not do that to others. you can’t claim bullying and harassment when you’re the one perpetrating it in the nastiest ways possible.
i need a nap. and like a whole bottle of wine maybe.
(fandom squee and snark take downs of fandom bs will return after a word from our sponsors; sleep, rehydration, and copious amounts of queen)
How…How can incest or any implication of it with or without sex be for general audiences?????????? I really really hate talking about my NOTP because that makes me sound like a bronly that can only spend time hating on a ship they don’t like…BUT Incest is an actual trigger for people. And if anyone thinks I’m exaggerating, well, it’s a fucking trigger for me. My parents can’t really accept my sexuality okay????? So when they found out, they implied in our argument that I, OUT OF ALL PEOPLE, might be dangerous to my own younger sister. Just because I came out as bisexual. MY OWN PARENTS THOUGHT I MIGHT HARASS MY OWN SIBLING JUST BECAUSE OF MY SEXUALITY and because the two of us are really close. I actually already forgot about it. Repressed it like Dean does with bad memories. But the Wincest side of this fucking fandom is triggering memories I wish I can edit out of my existence. WHY CAN’T THOS PEOPLE JUST LET SIBLINGS BE SIBLINGS?????? I saw my sister and I in Sam and Dean’s brotherhood. Now that feels so fucking weird all because of Wincest and its shippers who try to normalize it. They seriously ruined Sam and Dean’s brotherhood for me and probably half of the show. And now I find out they think incest without sex is rated for general audiences??????? Fuck that.
first of all, i’m so sorry, darlin. about everything. that’s so awful, idek where to begin.
secondly, i relate heavily to their bond too and for the longest time, i couldn’t let myself enjoy it because the bronlies poison everything beautiful about their bond. it literally scares people into not posting content or talking about it. and when i pointed this out to someone today, they laughed and said that was silly. so you can see what kind of crowd they’re really for.
if it helps, there’s a TRUE brothers gen fic christmas challenge coming up. they’re on twitter @ brobondcc.
i and several others are also working on a bro bond big bang (b4 😉 ), coming in 2019.
@casgirlsam OOOOOHHH thank you. That’s sooooo cool. I hope it’s a case fic or something about their childhood or teenage years. I want to know how Sam learned to make a bomb out of his lunchbox. You’re so nice. Thanks. ❤
…. those are fantastic ideas. would you be ok if i used those as prompts?
and no prob! anything i can do to help. 😀
Sure!!! Tag me or send me the link when you’re done? Oh and I like prank wars too. I prank my sis all the time.
thanks! and absolutely! it’s still in it’s infancy, but once we get the sm accounts started, i’ll make sure that’ll go up right after the rules. ❤️
How…How can incest or any implication of it with or without sex be for general audiences?????????? I really really hate talking about my NOTP because that makes me sound like a bronly that can only spend time hating on a ship they don’t like…BUT Incest is an actual trigger for people. And if anyone thinks I’m exaggerating, well, it’s a fucking trigger for me. My parents can’t really accept my sexuality okay????? So when they found out, they implied in our argument that I, OUT OF ALL PEOPLE, might be dangerous to my own younger sister. Just because I came out as bisexual. MY OWN PARENTS THOUGHT I MIGHT HARASS MY OWN SIBLING JUST BECAUSE OF MY SEXUALITY and because the two of us are really close. I actually already forgot about it. Repressed it like Dean does with bad memories. But the Wincest side of this fucking fandom is triggering memories I wish I can edit out of my existence. WHY CAN’T THOS PEOPLE JUST LET SIBLINGS BE SIBLINGS?????? I saw my sister and I in Sam and Dean’s brotherhood. Now that feels so fucking weird all because of Wincest and its shippers who try to normalize it. They seriously ruined Sam and Dean’s brotherhood for me and probably half of the show. And now I find out they think incest without sex is rated for general audiences??????? Fuck that.
first of all, i’m so sorry, darlin. about everything. that’s so awful, idek where to begin.
secondly, i relate heavily to their bond too and for the longest time, i couldn’t let myself enjoy it because the bronlies poison everything beautiful about their bond. it literally scares people into not posting content or talking about it. and when i pointed this out to someone today, they laughed and said that was silly. so you can see what kind of crowd they’re really for.
if it helps, there’s a TRUE brothers gen fic christmas challenge coming up. they’re on twitter @ brobondcc.
i and several others are also working on a bro bond big bang (b4 😉 ), coming in 2019.
@casgirlsam OOOOOHHH thank you. That’s sooooo cool. I hope it’s a case fic or something about their childhood or teenage years. I want to know how Sam learned to make a bomb out of his lunchbox. You’re so nice. Thanks. ❤
…. those are fantastic ideas. would you be ok if i used those as prompts?
I’m gonna call it like I see it. That post, from 2012 – the phrasing and runaround of incest-not-incest-gen-not-gen-intense-relationship, and even the punctuation style, it’s all identical to the current account trying to pimp out this idea. They’re using the very same replies like a copy paste marketing agent. They struggled to sell the idea back then and they’re trying to re-sell it now, and it’s going to get approval from the same people it got in 2012. Remember when I did a backlog search and said most of its usage cropped up in 2012? It was around that thread. Prior to that, there were a grand total of two fics, one in 2005 and one in 2006, tagged that.
That post epicentered around trying to convince people “Gencest” was a name for existing Sam & Dean fiction while trying to parallel it to Destiel fanfics, if I remember the wanky pages I viewed correctly. It was an inflationist cheesy competitional rhetoric that other people were going “Dafuq?” back in 2012 and they’re doing it now because it never took off beyond about a dozen fics after that.
This whole “It’s an old fandom guard! You must live under a rock! Everybody knows!” elitist attitude is particularly hilariously bad because this is literally a repeating cycle. Nobody knew then and barely anybody knew about it now. The strangest form of gatekeeping I ever-did-see: “If you don’t know about this tag, which has been used on less than 30 fanfics from the dawn of time and is even casually mentioned only 420 times on the entire internet, you’re not a tru old guard fan, everybody knows.” – That’s more of a really-bad-attempt at insult to injurious action against people blockading out the topic effectively with blacklists, which is the true issue at hand here, while otherwise kidnapping away S&D fics that might BE harmless into the wanky pile from people who would otherwise read it if it isn’t incesty.
No fam, your moderately-among-your-own-closest-friends-kind-of-locally-successful-tag-from-2012 is not definitive of “old fandom” or “things everybody knows.” And if your reach ends there, that kind of says a lot.
Bruh
“Everybody knows! The power of the old fandom compels you!”
Bruh
And half of that is you telling everybody they should know what it is.
1. interesting theory that seems to make sense given that they were also terrible back then at defending it as just genfic
sound familiar?
“And half of that is you telling everybody they should know what it is.”
RIGHT? like damn. i did a google search and legit most of the results were people asking wtf it meant
ITS NOT A WELLKNOWN TERM
like damn even teens know what “slash” means, and it’s not widely used as much anymore. it has nothing to do with being old and everything with weirdly forcing everyone to accept a term you made up.
OWN
IT
And that’s not even tackling what’s behind your first cut. Seriously, chriss. Take your first cut. Take the answers. Side by side both the confusion from people then, and the answers being given by the person endorsing it then and you have a verbatim, pretty much copy-paste set of conflicting answers just like back then, in 2012, when nobody knew what it was either, before generating half of the google responses asking “dafuq?” and answering back. You know, that swimming number I posted up there.
It’s someone that’s trying to hack and slash (pun) their way into having some ancient ass tag. Bro, lmao, no. I could probably find some complete crack tag from 05-06 that was on 1-2 fics, but I promise you if I had revived it 7, or now 13 years later acting like it was some ancient fandom lore because I tried to boot the idea and failed five years ago, everybody would be calling that shit out too.
Atop the truly, dangerously problematic issue in this (exposure to triggers with poorly defined and conflicting descriptors and/or theft-away of potential clean material that people will avoid because of the poorly defined and conflicting descriptors that are trying to avoid the trigger content), the ridiculous and outright looney part of this is pretending that because someone got a dozen close friends using it 5 years ago it’s some Founding Fathers Tradition Everybody Knows And Clearly You’re Just A Noob If You Don’t.
Your friend group does not define the fandom. I can not cite this enough.
And GBang would try to clap back “yours neither!” but no, actual yielded content, history, and digital receipts speak it pretty well.
*rubs temples* i just…. there’s just not enough of it to justify calling it an old fandom term. like in, what, two years? the small pair of sam/rowena is more than what gencest is. and it’s been around for waaaay less than gencest.
91! 9. 1. ninety-one fics on ao3. that’s not counting what’s floating on here.
“your friend group does not define the fandom”
perfect example: we both know people who tried to make jmj, a newer version of j2m, a thing. and did it ever take off? no. i literally knew i had to explain that acronym because it didn’t. a handful of people at most know what it is. and if they tried five years down the road to insist that it’s an old well-known fandom term, people are going to have the same “tf is that” reaction you’re seeing with confused people re gencest
(except not really the same because people are objecting to more than just the name now; now it’s the behavior and who it’s being marketed towards)
Yes, this. Exactly. The JMJ thing. We know who made it. We know a lot of personal friends that used it for a little while. But we’re not huffing enough crack to claim you’re a newbie or somehow not-ITK for not knowing it, but funny enough-
As niche and cracky as JMJ’s usage is, and as much humility as you displayed in calling that point out, its usage is about 125x higher than “Gencest”. Let that sink in.
Now, I will argue that even with the “Supernatural” word quoted, there may be some arbitrary image string letters coming in and the ilk, and realistically scrolling through the results we can see they aren’t all SPN so-
I gave it a whole other qualifier, an extra threshold of search clarification above what was given to theirs and
Oh. Wild.
Wait.
So there’s 3 more results for “SPN”+”J2M”+”JMJ” than there even are “gencest.”
JMJ, of course, being a term started about a year ago, casually, among one limited friend group and their immediate contacts.
Old guard must have some really lax usage. And if you’re worried, you can reclarify the results. I just put this in the google field: "JMJ"+“Supernatural”+“J2M”
This of course requires all three clearly and got 340 results. It’s fucking wild. Almost like gencest is a non-idea someone keeps remarketing and trying to convince people is ancient history when it isn’t.
Never was. Never will be. That, or you can go tell Sissa her tag is secretly super fandom famous and everybody knows it, and she just didn’t know it.
oh my god i— the term has been around for a year and it’s on par with what they’re claiming is an old fandom term
The worst thing is I legit know that was like, IDK, maybe five people that dedicated to use the term when it started. They used it recurringly for a few months here or there, maybe talked a few other people into using it temporarily, and that was it. And it reached that same capacity, including being listed on SuperWiki, since that’s being flagged around like some indicator of Ancient Authority.
Also if you check the respective tags, JMJ on tumblr turns up a variety of results but a bunch are SPN of… JMJ! If you check Gencest, there’s…. three Wincest fics, wank about this, and an unrelated post. There’s legit nothing else. Now, once this bang goes off, there may be a whole… I dunno! Maybe a dozen tagged posts! Before it wanes into oblivion.
In fact, SUPER DUPER wild, for this being an “old fandom” thing that “everybody knew”, while there are legit like no posts about gencest on tumblr before this hot mess, the “platonic wincest” topic we’ve heard them arguing for the last year or two DOES have a bunch of posts. WILD. Wasn’t she saying that’s what it was? Platonic Wincest? Or is it something different now? Because she danced that about 52 times. But boy, I guess those hundreds of “Platonic Wincest” posts on tumblr are all people that live under rocks according to their standard. Oh, and Kelios and Angie. They must live under rocks too, because IIRC, they’ve been using “Platonic Wincest” and not “Gencest” frequently.
There is zero realistic universe where this has ever been a tag, title, or object of popularity. And frankly, they know it too. A few probably embarrassedly checked after heckling a “LOL DO U LIVE UNDER A ROCK” at some folks, realizing they hadn’t heard it either and realizing it isn’t a thing. They’re just arguing it to argue at this point, while gencest bang lies through their teeth about the ancient fandom origins of the term, the mightiness of its reach, et cetera et cetera. You know, the ancient thing that isn’t on twitter, tumblr, livejournal, ffnet, google…
So yeah. Laugh.
And hopefully someone out there experiences some peak of embarrassment at the papertrail – and mostly lack-thereof that led us straight to their LJ origins of this foundation – while they played old guard superiors. A simple google search shows they’re a compulsive liar trying to build some weird fandom legacy off of a tag they eternally struggle to sell.
Just because we haven’t been banging pots and pans online the whole time doesn’t mean we haven’t been watching shit. There’s a reason I came into this fandom locked and loaded with charts from day 1. And some of the people loudly protesting HAVE been banging pots and pans since day one.
Very possibly likely older fucks than them.
Wait, they’re saying this is a term that was used in the old days? I was in the fandom then, specifically J2. I was very familiar and on speaking terms with about 80% of j2 and wincest authors (something that makes me cringe now, unfortunately). We NEVER used/saw this term. I was in on LJ from season one through half way through four. I left when everyone turned into nasty bitches about Cas and Misha cause I thought he was great.
tl;dr. NO ONE IN THE ORIGINAL FANDOM EVER USED THIS TERM. EVER.
hey thanks for saying something!
they also tried to call it pre-slash which is more wider known, but i’ve NEVER seen it referred to sibling gen fics. and i’ve been in fandoms since i was 15 (i’m 31 now)
also a heads up for everyone, they spent three hours relentlessly stalking my twitter and tagging me in long stand-alone tweet threads.
How…How can incest or any implication of it with or without sex be for general audiences?????????? I really really hate talking about my NOTP because that makes me sound like a bronly that can only spend time hating on a ship they don’t like…BUT Incest is an actual trigger for people. And if anyone thinks I’m exaggerating, well, it’s a fucking trigger for me. My parents can’t really accept my sexuality okay????? So when they found out, they implied in our argument that I, OUT OF ALL PEOPLE, might be dangerous to my own younger sister. Just because I came out as bisexual. MY OWN PARENTS THOUGHT I MIGHT HARASS MY OWN SIBLING JUST BECAUSE OF MY SEXUALITY and because the two of us are really close. I actually already forgot about it. Repressed it like Dean does with bad memories. But the Wincest side of this fucking fandom is triggering memories I wish I can edit out of my existence. WHY CAN’T THOS PEOPLE JUST LET SIBLINGS BE SIBLINGS?????? I saw my sister and I in Sam and Dean’s brotherhood. Now that feels so fucking weird all because of Wincest and its shippers who try to normalize it. They seriously ruined Sam and Dean’s brotherhood for me and probably half of the show. And now I find out they think incest without sex is rated for general audiences??????? Fuck that.
first of all, i’m so sorry, darlin. about everything. that’s so awful, idek where to begin.
secondly, i relate heavily to their bond too and for the longest time, i couldn’t let myself enjoy it because the bronlies poison everything beautiful about their bond. it literally scares people into not posting content or talking about it. and when i pointed this out to someone today, they laughed and said that was silly. so you can see what kind of crowd they’re really for.
if it helps, there’s a TRUE brothers gen fic christmas challenge coming up. they’re on twitter @ brobondcc.
i and several others are also working on a bro bond big bang (b4 😉 ), coming in 2019.
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