The Destiel Agenda League

intelligentshipper:

Got a hilarious screencap sent my way. Apparently I made some short, presumably elite-tinhat-hate-focus list of problems-in-the-fandom according to tinhats, like some sort of Destiel Avengers. Bronly Things, SuperWiki, Lua (? doesn’t she leave them alone? Is she a shipper? Does she even go here?), Emily, and me! Apparently the fandom sees us as HEROES. WHY DIDN’T ANYONE TELL ME?

I’m so good I hid my secret hero alias from MYSELF

Are we Marvel or DC

I wanna either be Iron Man or Batman

Can we get a poster

Rofl I can’t.

Yes, they legitimately think this is about “killing gay rumors” and not about shutting up cantankerous asshats that besiege the cast, crew, families and friends of the people they obsess over.

Once again wildly missing the point of everything.

Hasn’t… Emily… been gone… for years?

“she’s one of the people responsible for the current climate”

i wasn’t aware only a handful of people including an ex-fan that only talks about issues when people drag her back into them could be single-handedly responsible for fandom attitude change. see, i thought it was because collectively, people are tired of their bullshit. my b.

“they tried to kill gay rumors”

yeah how dare we call out people who call gen, danneel, and j2’s other family and friends slurs on a daily. clearly we only care about squashing gay rumors about jared and jensen while also a group of us coo over how gay jensen and misha are together

rubs temples

intelligentshipper:

You know. I’ve not been quiet about my distaste for W*ncest. But I’ve also not been in any way unclear, you enjoy whatever kinks or whatever you want in your own corner. If they’re trigger topics, tag it and bag it but enjoy it where it’s safe, same way you don’t watch r*pe videos in public. Like it’s not hard to have basic human decency.

But this new movement to try to de-fetishize W*ncest to the public is hinging in the realm of absurdity at this point. First people talking about “platonic W*ncest” for the last year (and I don’t think I need to explain to anyone how that literally doesn’t work, because *ncest is literally sexual engagement between closely related family members, and without sexuality, it’s just… being family), now “Gencest Bang” being endorsed by Wiki and, when asked what the fuck that even means by most people, trying to come back with some OH ITS OLD FANDOM GUARD garbage.

No fam. It’s old niche W*ncest lane garbage cycling back.

SuperWiki and GencestBang are really out here arguing GenCest as some widely received ancient fandom thing for “platonic”.
Less than 2 pages on Ao3 (2 works 05-06, a few 2012, mostly 2015+)
3 works on DA (all by the same account in 2k16)
2 works on FF.net (2016, 2017)

I’ll give there’s 211 calls on LJ, most of which are around 2k12. Half asking for them and not finding. A few trying to MAKE all S&D fics Gencest to match up to DeanCas fics.

There are 421 calls total, on the entire fucking internet, including duplicates and casual mentions, if you google search “Gencest” and “Supernatural” together with quotes to ensure both words are used (so you’re not pulling, I don’t know, some crackheads in another fandom pulling the same shit. “Gencest” without the word Supernatural returns 2,240 results – and lo and behold, the tag leads to My Little Ponies making out without “Supernatural” attached.)

To scale that, running the same search on “Destiel” and “Supernatural” returns approx 6,460,000 results. [or roughly 15,357x the usage] (without “Supernatural” since I gave Gencest that argument, I just pulled 9,230,000 results. Only Destiel is an SPN-fandom-unique-word, unlike theirs. Again.) I think google just gave up.

(”W*ncest” [minus * obv] and “Supernatural” together returns 579,000 results. I’m not searching W*ncest without, because it’s a term general *ncest folks use which is why the hashtag’s most closely associated words are things like “Tits” and “milfs”) (Again, to scale that to W*ncest or Destiel usage with “Supernatural” included, that’s less than 9% the spoken usage of Destiel)

Basically, some tiny niche now thinking itself as old fandom guard maybe 20 strong at its peak, and I do mean its peak (while choosing to be absurdly generous that all 420~ mentions are “old time” despite the above info), might have used the fucking term and half tried to kidnap true Sam and Dean gen into it for most of its mentions and that’s it.

Let’s not play games, guys. If you’re still incorporating an *ncest element but just doing pull-the-curtain like you’re editing it for primetime non-premium TV channels, that’s still fucking *ncest, you dumb motherfuckers. The same way if a curtain pulls in a DeanCas fic that is otherwise romantic or possibly suggestive, it’s still a queer romance Destiel fic, and also isn’t Gen.

THAT ISN’T GEN.

YOU LITERALLY CAN NOT HAVE GEN *NCEST.

THIS ISN’T FUCKING HARD.

STOP trying to act like you’re not normalizing *ncest. If you want to fap out to it, or kink out to it, or read it, or whatever, do it. But playing dance-around-the-words isn’t going to change what it fucking is, holy shit. No, *ncest will never be able to be painted platonically, even if you pull the curtain on coitus, because that’s still not platonic. A bromance without actual romance is gen. A bromance is not sexual, ergo it is not *ncest. Once you’re playing into Single Bed tropes but keeping it “clean” to the reading eye doesn’t make it magically not *ncest, and magically gen, any more than a PG-13 written fic of any other ship that still implies beyond it is Gen.

I mean, if you want to play that game, everyone can just tag anything whatever the hell they want, and Dean and Cas can make oogly eyes and awkward touches and internal thoughts about their feelings and share a single bed and we can pretend that’s not a Destiel romantic fic and play that it’s Gen? NO. We can’t. No ship can. Not W*ncest, not “Gencest” whatever the fuck that is.

Don’t even compare it to BroTP either, because they tried, and that’s not what BroTP is, either. BroTP is a pairing, nonsexualized and non romantic, that make a true pair duo. This isn’t fucking difficult, what the fuck? Maybe you’ve literally just been drinking the *ncest Kool-aid so fucking long you can’t discern that Bro-TP or brothers aren’t the same as *ncest. I don’t fucking know.

Fucking look.

Keep reading

idk what bother me more: not giving a fuck that words don’t work like that or lying to people

i have no doubt in my mind that they know what they’re doing. they’re not dumb.

Back to lanes.

intelligentshipper:

It’s funny. I stand up for Cas, vocal J1er crazies say I’m a fake Sam fan. I try to reason with the OTT Dean stans right now about how this is a story Dean has NEEDED, and get told I can’t understand because I’m a Sam fan. Oh, and if I reason anything balancing Sam’s POV against either assault, I’m either just a Sam stan or a Destiheller depending on who’s arguing. This fandom is so far beyond critical bullshit levels and so self-unaware it’s staggering. Year to year the same fandom corner can demand something, be given it, then piss all over it and say it’s used to diminish their characters or that the writers suck or whatever.

Please, King. Go off.

Maybe I should just change my theme to a Bobo theme at this rate. Since apparently I’m a fake but extreme but only but anti in every lane according to whoever is going off the deep end in another lane, might as well just go full Bobo stan, considering my hashtag for him.

Fucking hell.

if there’s going to be a bobo standom, i’m in

castiel-in-the-impala:

intelligentshipper:

casgirlsam:

casistooadorableandithurts:

tinkdw:

casgirlsam:

I SHOULD BE SLEEPING BUT I HAD A THOUGHT AND NOW IT WONT LEAVE

so i was shutting down some negativity with a positive qt about this summary:

and i was being very “hey these bonds need a shot at forming too” (because they do and sam&cas deserve some bro time that isn’t centered around OMG WE NEED TO SAVE DEAN) when it dawned on me:

mary was paired up with sam when they split up and they talked about bobby and how she finds it hard to get him to open up cause walls

and what was she wearing?

and who ELSE do we know wears a tan coat, hmm?

me when i connected the dots

ME AN HOUR LATER AFTER IT PROCESSED:

YALL

like imagine

cas and sam are in the car driving home. sam checks in with cas, just seeing how he’s doing emotionally cause that’s sam for ya. cas tries to use the winchester f word but half way through the syllable opens up about how he wishes dean would just talk to him about his trauma and let down his walls

and sam tells him the same thing he told his mother: that if he cares about him, and he knows cas does, he’d try to get past that wall.

i’m a freakin endgame-positive shipper and i’m gobsmacked at how freaking obvious they’re being

God I don’t like speculating too positively just in case cos I get accused of winding up the fandom but there’s a real opportunity there. I mean it just makes sense at this point. I don’t even hope for or expect it all but just Cas lamenting Dean’s walls would be epic.

It’s Bucklemming so either it’ll not happen at all or it’ll be a literal spade to the face… let’s see! Let’s not forget too that season 13 started off with a similar massive bang (and season 12 was quite strong too) then petered off massively so who knows, it could also just fizzle out. Let’s see and fingers crossed it doesn’t tho 😉

Also, @tinkdw, I don’t know how this relates but I’m pretty sure that at SDCC Eugenie said she wrote lines for Cas for this episode that she really liked?? Now, this is Eugenie so this could mean everything and nothing, and I still don’t trust her in any way, but they did step up their game for 14×02 and I’m hoping that by that she means good character development lines (though I find it hard to believe Dabb would give some kind of reveal, as subtle as it might be, to Bucklemming, unless he is guiding them somehow).

Still, the Cas stuff in 14×02 was SO GOOD I can’t help but be excited about Sam and Cas finally partnering up on a case!

yeah @tinkdw i don’t want to get my hopes up either it’s just that one purposeful wardrobe choice and pairing… it’s still just so blatant, no matter what cas and sam end up discussing, that my brain just can’t let that go

i can trust what eugenie says as far as i can throw her, but i believe that it was @intelligentshipper that mentioned she writes some good cas stuff so we’ll see!

also the fact that they’re using the buddy system is the cutest.

(and this is honestly just teeny giggle worthy i thought of because when using the buddy system, dean and cas aren’t paired up LOOOL)

I was falling asleep and didn’t have the brainpower to respond to this last night, but yes to all of the above. Generaly I don’t trust Leming but for the last few years her work with Cas has been solid, 14.02 wasn’t actually a shitshow, I’m staying at “hopes high, expectations low.” But while we may be able to – say – expect some clunky dialogue out of her we may also be able to think Dabb and co went, hey Eugenie, here’s what we’re aiming for. Because it honestly feels – given I’m gauging off of 14.02 – that she’s actually playing with the other kids in the writing room this year. In my experience BL eps OFTEN have them seperated. But minding that say, Dean’s confessional, or “You look good/should rest” all came out of BL eps, I don’t think we can gauge that they hard no homo wall it – whether or not it’s on purpose or not, they have written us good content in the area before. Buck always seems to handle Dean and Eugenie always seems to handle Cas, until they do their final bond-across moments to tie the episode together.

Catch me screaming into the void

Sam lensed thoughts

intelligentshipper:

dotthings:

intelligentshipper:

I think what’s killing me right now is Sam’s juxtaposition to Dean at our current advent in season 14.

In a lot of ways, Sam is fulfilling a true character arc – finally. Passed the keys to the bunker; using his tech savant skills to build a network and a legacy; not as ready or thoughtful of retirement as Dean yet, but still wanting peace; Dean readily accepting him taking on a leader role–

But Dean himself isn’t complete and so, even removing Michael – if we pretended that was a nonissue – Dean himself is still broken up over the aftermath and Sammy doesn’t know how to fix it.

He tried. He thought he had it.

In season 10, during the Mark of Cain chaos, Dean took comfort and “felt like himself” again by being taken on a vampire hunt.

Dean: “Yeah, you know, for the first time I’ve been back, I didn’t feel like the Mark was pushing me.”

Sam: “First time?”

Dean: “All I know is, back there, killing those vamps… I felt like me again.“

Sam: “Alright, so that’s good, right?“

D: “Yeah.”

– Sam & Dean, 10.08 Hibbing 911.

Now, in season 14 with Dean hiding out in his room, not only does Sam do that but finds like, The Perfect Case™ that’s just perfectly suited to get Dean out of a funk with the interests he never lets himself deeply invest in and boom – plucky Dean at the end of the episode, but we all saw something still wasn’t right.

And, in 14.5, Dean does show where he’s grown. Sam doesn’t get to really see these discussions as he talks about trying to let things go every day because The Past Is The Past (trying to think like that every day, rather than S10 where it’s “the opposite of what I do”; also keep an eye on S10, we’re gonna keep tapping back to it), but the thought echoes up later. And Dean, sideways in it all still, admits – he’s still not okay. He almost felt like himself. Almost.

“You know, I’ve been trying to– not forget, but to move on, from what I–from what we– from what he did. And to be honest, I was– I was starting to feel like myself again. Almost.”

– Dean 14.5 Nightmare Logic

Almost.

In fact, the sentences are framed so painfully similar, and the evocation of Americana in both of these episodes (though 14.5 it was a shortly previous scene with sending off Mobby), I can’t help but feel it was, truly, intentional. “You know,” [introspection] “I felt like me again/I was starting to feel like myself again. Almost.”

Almost.

Almost.

The “Almost” is murdering me. As is this.

Keep reading

All this. I’m encouraged by how frank S14 is being about what doesn’t work any more. Dean’s “every day”–it’s a work-in-progress, it’s in process, it’s not all ok and fixed but he keeps at it. And Dean’s “Almost.” All you pointed out here about Sam knowing the same old fixes he and they have tried in the past won’t cut it any more.

Sam knew.

“There’s nothing quite as awful – but quite as mature – as realizing you can’t be the end all fix all for somebody you care about.” – has to be one of my favorite meta sentences written about Sam and Dean in a while.

A lot of what you pointed out here is a reason why I’m warming up to the bro bond again. I almost teared up reading this post. Their sibling bond is something I loved (still love) dearly, then canon drifted me from it, then started the repairs I needed, real slow, I can’t even say when it started but it’s Dabb era that’s doing it. I’m holding my breath a little, afraid to get excited too soon but I’m really liking Sam and Dean in S14 and after the way the bottom fully dropped out for me on them by the end of S10, that’s a big deal to me.

*waves little S14 flag* Go team character development.

I’ve had a hard time determining what part of the bro bond I started detaching from due to the show, and what part due to fandom. It doesn’t help that we have a very noisy sector of fans that screams against progress and cheers on destructive, toxic behavior – much less the people who spin everything into *ncest when it’s honestly the opposite. It’s made it so hard for me to even find good Sam content, good Sam discussions, I go into master meta blogs wearing a digital biohazard suit. But I do know this season has become positive enough I honestly don’t give a shit what they think or shit on, in or around aside from occasionally heckling them over the lunacy and canon-contrariness of it. This season is… so healthy and rewarding once you don’t let standom get in your ear.

I do encourage, once reading the full OP, to go cross check the other links dropped in it too – be it my own three posts about Dean’s end of the exchange and/or use of his song, or the post by @casgirlsam that I linked into it towards the end. It’s really weighty food for thought that seems to be fencing in our entire situation right now.

THIS WHOLE POST BLESS YALL

i don’t have much to add except my feelings on the bro bond…

the bro bond, oh yes. something i relate heavily to but was scared into not enjoying for years. if it wasn’t people twisting it into something dark, it was people telling me i hated sam. and within canon, it was lying and toxic codependency. i can say that the ratio of what was fandom-caused and what was canon-caused is about 50/50 re my attitude towards it for literally most of the time i’ve been watching.

one day i just… snapped. for one, canon was moving towards a more healthy bond. i also realized that the ones yelling at me were going to keep yelling and they were going to keep twisting anything i did or said (and canon for that matter). so not only am i now sam-focused, but i also fully embraced the bro bond that i can relate to.

my sisters and i come from a home filled with physical/verbal/emotional abuse and parents that were barely around. we were each other’s only friends pretty much. i’m the oldest that was forced from a young age to watch over and care for my younger siblings. as you can see, when i say i can relate, i mean it. so i’m glad the show and my idgaf/contrary attitude is letting me enjoy their bond again.

I SHOULD BE SLEEPING BUT I HAD A THOUGHT AND NOW IT WONT LEAVE

so i was shutting down some negativity with a positive qt about this summary:

and i was being very “hey these bonds need a shot at forming too” (because they do and sam&cas deserve some bro time that isn’t centered around OMG WE NEED TO SAVE DEAN) when it dawned on me:

mary was paired up with sam when they split up and they talked about bobby and how she finds it hard to get him to open up cause walls

and what was she wearing?

and who ELSE do we know wears a tan coat, hmm?

me when i connected the dots

ME AN HOUR LATER AFTER IT PROCESSED:

YALL

like imagine

cas and sam are in the car driving home. sam checks in with cas, just seeing how he’s doing emotionally cause that’s sam for ya. cas tries to use the winchester f word but half way through the syllable opens up about how he wishes dean would just talk to him about his trauma and let down his walls

and sam tells him the same thing he told his mother: that if he cares about him, and he knows cas does, he’d try to get past that wall.

i’m a freakin endgame-positive shipper and i’m gobsmacked at how freaking obvious they’re being

What do you think about negativity completely taking over the destiel fandom on twitter lately? EP7’s summary just came out and it looks like Cas will be with Sam on a separate storyline while Dean is with Jack.

intelligentshipper:

intelligentshipper:

Negativity has consumed every part of the fandom. It’s not just Destiel. Stan twitter/tumblr/whatever will be pissy no matter what they’re given.

Last year? Sure Sam has emotional stuff but he needs plot! Give him story presence! This year? Sam being a leader is trash! Let him talk about his feelings history with Dean!

Last year? And the last few years? Dean’s overstressed! He’s overworked! Sam’s the one that gets all the emotional stuff! Let Dean breathe! This year? How dare Dabb let Sam take over! You’re taking Dean’s place in the group! Nevermind that Dean isn’t being painted incompetent and helped lead Sam back into confidence!

And whenever they try to manage both in seasons? Hoo boy. So and so doesn’t deserve it or this or that and the character stanning only intensifies.

Last year – do you get where I’m going with this?

This fandom is fucking toxic if you’re gauging anything off of how stan twitter is feeling. Characters, relationships, anything. There are always people dying to be pissed off about something and even when they’re finally happy about something another group of people dying to be pissed off about something are there waiting to take over, and generally they overlap, or double back on what they happened to want before and spit on it when they’re given it.

Destiel fandom is only different in that not only are we getting pissy moods about a relationship we’re also managing two character viewpoints and reasons to be pissy from a character level in stan fandom.

Keep reading

I’m going to add to this by saying: How many people feeling this are people who binge watched at least a portion of the show? Any portion. Years ago even. Maybe when it uploaded to Netflix? Season 7? When did you join live? And most importantly, when did you join stan twitter fandom, and when did you start feeling bitter about everything? Were you this bitter all the time before you joined standom? Probably not. As in the above cut post, it’s a mass hysteria effect that borders on mass hallucination at times, imagining global sleights from people you trained yourself into thinking had a similar scope to you, but maligning what was once material and content you would have enjoyed.

Consider it deeply before deciding that just because whatever wing you’re in (and this must be a respectively small wing, because I have dozens if not hundreds of happy friends at current in my wing and have only run into a few complaints, likely from another branch of Destiel fandom, of which there are many among dozens of thousands of fans) stands for the voice of everybody and, if you’re seeing too much negativity about things you used to enjoy that are making it less enjoyable, I might suggest reviewing your options and tailoring your timeline.

Standom turns fanning into a competitive sport about who can be the most pissed off, whether people are realize that’s the hunger games they’ve been thrown into or not. The first step is to honestly step away from standom and rejoin fandom. It can be difficult to discern which is which, since we casually joke “I stan,” but go listen to Eminem’s “Stan” which created the name, and review if you’re on a parallel slide, or if the lane around you is to start dragging you down the course, off the bridge and into the wank waters.

behind a cut because this got long WHOOPS

1. re: echo chambers: that’s why it’s healthy to be around people that have differing opinions. you end up seeing different viewpoints and seeing things from a different angle. like, there were people i now consider friends that didn’t immediately coo over jack and it helped put things in perspective for me instead of a constant motherly reaction to a perceived negative tweet about him

2. ditto the thing about stan sm. if y’all listen to that minority, it sounds like the show is on the verge of cancelling when it’s not. and it can even hurt because characters and actors and even members of tptb you hold dear are raged at because THAT particular stan corner can’t stand them for some reason.

3. to answer your added question (which was supposed to be mentally reflective i’m sure but lmaoooo), i started watching in s9. watched on the app and then live a few episodes before the finale.

hellatus between s9-s10 i was being a little bitter because i was listening to some assholes in destiel tumblr fandom that cas deserves better than dean. it lasted a very short while because then s10 happened and i was back to crying about wanting my babes together.

i also kind of isolated myself from fandom from 2014-2017, so that helped de-bitter me. was just lurking around, live tweeting when i could. reading fics. reblogging gifs and destiel-positive it’s-going-somewhere posts. interacting with others when i felt up to interacting with strangers. so i know about shit that went down.

now i have a much better fandom experience because @intelligentshipper pretty much dragged me out of the shadows and ever since then i realized that yeah, being more active means you see more of the shitty stan side, but it helps oddly enough? because you can mute those people or block them (and yeah i know it won’t solve every problem in fandom but it helps). you can surround yourself like i did with people that just enjoy the show and don’t rage unless it’s something that deserves it (like the gross sexualizing of lucifer taking sister jo’s grace, for example BLECH).

it’s freaking needed to protect your mental health, for one, and for another i don’t remember enjoying my overall experience with the show and the fandom as much as i do now. my default to most hate-rage now is laughter. like “LMAO WHERE ARE THEY EVEN GETTING THAT FROM”.

in conclusion to this long ass essay: ignore extreme stans by taking some of the steps i described. it might help you like it did me.

GA livestream exploration update.

intelligentshipper:

casgirlsam:

intelligentshipper:

Sonalii asked why Mary was wearing Castiel’s trenchcoat and visibly staggered and sputtered over it.

Dabb getting everybody asking the right questions.

She also seemed to reverse connect that they’re “hinting at that” now. What “that” is, we can take a guess, since she’s not a shipper. Or you know, doesn’t identify as one.

When I talk about the moving line our canon is giving us, this is what I mean.

The GA, outside of ideas of ships, have simply shifted where they’re even negotiating from. A non-shipping general viewer not involved in any mainline fandom and not receiving prompts literally just negotiated expecting Mobby to become a thing, from seeing Destiel connotations in wardrobe, after missing the subtler hints in AU world of growing close, long before the episode reached its end.

Teehee.

I JUST

SHE WAS GOING ON ABOUT THE OUTFITS FOR TWO MINUTES

here have some key giffed moments from her live stream under the cut

[[more]]

bonus! my casual non-shipper friend messaged me while i was making these because she was watching the episode finally

Borky tumblr stuff aside, reblogging. For science. You should probably gif the part where she was like “I guess they’re hinting at that huh”

i’m on it

it seems like she’s talking about destiel to me. because she had just read a comment from the chat that mentioned it, so the flow of the conversation/thought seemed to say that’s what she was talking about….

GA livestream exploration update.

intelligentshipper:

Sonalii asked why Mary was wearing Castiel’s trenchcoat and visibly staggered and sputtered over it.

Dabb getting everybody asking the right questions.

She also seemed to reverse connect that they’re “hinting at that” now. What “that” is, we can take a guess, since she’s not a shipper. Or you know, doesn’t identify as one.

When I talk about the moving line our canon is giving us, this is what I mean.

The GA, outside of ideas of ships, have simply shifted where they’re even negotiating from. A non-shipping general viewer not involved in any mainline fandom and not receiving prompts literally just negotiated expecting Mobby to become a thing, from seeing Destiel connotations in wardrobe, after missing the subtler hints in AU world of growing close, long before the episode reached its end.

Teehee.

I JUST

SHE WAS GOING ON ABOUT THE OUTFITS FOR TWO MINUTES

here have some key giffed moments from her live stream under the cut