I think one of the most mysterious aspects of fandom is, honestly, standom. And I don’t mean general standom, wherein we casually say, almost jokingly, “I stan.” I mean standom that, whether the bearer of the label consciously recognizes it or not, reflects the origin-song name, “Stan.”
It happens in every branch of fandom, and probably every fandom. Here, we have Sam stans, Dean stans, Cas stans, recently Jack stans. Jared, Jensen, Misha stans. Any trio or duo set of them. Any romantic pairing of them. There’s an entire stan ecosystem.
But one thing I find is that stans – like Eminem’s song tribute stan stans – is their bitterness is self breeding. For example, they get an interpretation in their head of a character they don’t like – we’ll say Castiel since he gets some of the most vitriolic readings. So say, a Sam or Dean stan gets a reading on Castiel where they don’t like the character, ergo, will read their canon through a distorted lens henceforth.
Now, we’re going to hear the warcry, “it’s art, all interpretations are equal”, and that’s true to a point. But in the case of SPN, the story and artpiece is still being built. If you’re still reading active brush strokes and projecting the meaning before the piece is completed, if you are completely unawares of what the artist is trying to paint but become HELLBENT on a certain idea, odds are, if you haven’t really empathized with the artist’s intention, you’re going to be wrong.
And this is a painting 14 years in progress. (More behind the cut to really break out the source of the cycle of bitterness, as it emboldens itself now at our 14 year mark.)
The original post is meant to talk about huge issues in literary interpretation and how it impacts fandom, and largely brushes over but mentions in-passing things like tinhats. This is because issues with tinhats are adjacent-to, but not immediately relevant to literary interpretation, recognition of author intent, etc. They impact our fandom experience almost relentlessly, though, and the psychology behind it echoes the stan psychology closely enough that it’s worth doubling back and talking about.
Let me mention again: I am not a tinhat of any sort. Friends try to tug at me into the dumpster and occasionally it looks cozy, but I keep it squarely outside of my area of business. But let it be said I have never met what I could call a bitter Cockles stan. I’ve met Cockles stans that were simultaneously Destiel shippers, and even Cockles stans that were simultaneously Bitter Destiel Stans, but I’ve never actually met a bitter Cockles stan. They may be out there, IDK, but they’re definitely not the overwhelming majority.
But problem narratives, shattered glass castles of disproven rhetoric etc definitely aren’t just a literary interpretation issue and other RPS and tinhat features in this fandom have bred an entire extra-aggressive subset of bitter fans. So I’m going to put some stuff behind a cut, screenshotted, and highlighted full of things that have literally been proven to be lies to exemplify the psychology between obsessively negative fixations, delusions and dismissal to continue building faulty narratives. Because this IS adjacent and related, in more ways than one, to the original topic though it deserves independent posting.
Bitterness Intensifies: The Middle Lane Fan Conundum.
A final and closing but necessary part to this saga: “Y u not just ignore them, u make urself bitter too.”
Well, fam, that’s a great question, but that’s because bitter stans are insufferably everywhere, and unless you close yourself up in some bizarre cult-of-silence bullshit like OnlyLove, you’re SOL. And even then, that’s… what, conquered by TAW fans that support doxxing the fandom?
This isn’t a matter you can just adjust to interpret the intent of the author. This isn’t a matter you can just will away. Your only option is turning off the digital fandom entirely to cull this until they stop self-feeding their vitriol into every lane as above.
And yes, Destiel fans can be middle lane. The vast majority are J2M fans. The vast majority also enjoy the brobond but are ironically cautious of content because it leads down bronly/*ncest/tinhat holes or, at best, salty stan holes. There’s some infinite series of wank wormholes in this fandom filled with salty stans and tinhats, or weirdo cult worshippers that still choose to overlap with these lanes but then try to shield bash silence if you have a different opinion, like “only me/mine get an opinion and anything else is bullying.” That doesn’t work. None of it works.
I sincerely hope the SPN writers use this season to address what it truly means to be family. Because last episode made it clear to me that although Dean has labeled Jack as family, and that Sam and Cas also see Jack as family, Jack does not feel the same about them, particularly Dean. Before that scene that made me see red, Jack referred to his grandparents as his real family, implying that the original TFW were not his. Which is why it is probably so easy for him to only “see” Michael and not see Dean being possessed by Michael. He expressed no desire to even try to save Dean. It’s all about killing Michael. Dean doesn’t matter.
I was annoyed last season when Jack was accepted as family so quickly. That label wasn’t earned. I don’t know what it is about this show and its inability to no longer develop organic relationships. Hopefully, the writers are now aware that it was too soon to have any of TFW consider Jack family. And that they work on the relationships between the characters. Develop actual relationships and worry about labels later. (Personally, I’m fine with Jack and Dean never having scenes again, but I know I’m not that lucky.)
Anyway, that little exchange between Cas and Jack shocked me out of my previous indifference towards Jack. He can die, get lost, get trapped in another dimension, choke on some nougat for all I care.
Alright bitches we gotta talk
The way Jack speaks to and about his grandparents, he obviously holds them in high regard. He’s been treated like a soldier his whole life. This was really the first time in his 17 months of living that he got to be normal. The Klines are the normal family he’ll never get. But, more importantly, they remind him of his mother. Kelly was the only one that believed in him for the longest time. And she gave him the best advice he’s ever heard. He is good own person. He doesn’t have to follow in his father’s footsteps. He doesn’t have to listen to every single order Team Free Will gives him. And he never got to meet her. Her parents are the closest thing he’ll get to meeting the woman that gave him so much
And then he went back to the bunker, doubtlessly in such a good mood after seeing them, and Cas was pissed. So, in the heat of the moment, Jack got mad, too. But don’t think for a second that it means he doesn’t view them as family. After all, that’s what family is. They get mad, that fight, they frustrate each other beyond belief. But in the end, they come back to each other, because no matter what, they’re family, and they still love each other. And that’s exactly what happened. And that’s how you know they really are family.
Now, let’s talk about this whole family thing, because are apparently you don’t see it. Jack won Cas over when he was still in the womb. Cas knew that he had to stay with Kelly to keep Jack safe, and he grew to love her. And that made him love Jack. He already knew that Jack was good. He could sense it. And Jack’s always lived up to that. That’s why Cas loves him.
And then there’s Sam. Sam was actually scared of him at first. He saw this man standing in the corner, eyes glowing yellow, and he should have been scared. But then Sam actually met him, and he realized Jack is actually just a cute little kid with a candy addiction. That alone may not have won him over, but Sam had to take him in anyway, just to make sure he wouldn’t become evil. After how much time they spent together, of course Sam would grow to love him, not to mention the number of times Jack saved them or helped them out. If you’re going to say there’s no reason for Sam to love Jack as family, then Charlie isn’t family. Bobby isn’t family. Jody isn’t family.
In fact, the only one who might not think of Jack as family is Dean, who, coincidentally, is the first one you mentioned. Jack’s first impression of him was that he’s a coldhearted asshole, and that went on for weeks. But Jack still tried his hardest to please him, and every time, he got shot down. Because no matter how much Dean preaches about making your own destiny, he couldn’t fathom the idea that Jack wasn’t going to be an exact copy of Lucifer. And then Cas came back, and the high from that made him do much nicer, but Jack barely got to see that before getting thrown into another dimension. So if they’re not family, it’s all Dean’s fault, because Jack tried so hard to get in his good side, and Dean wouldn’t let him. Now he’s facing the consequences.
But honestly, I don’t think what Jack said has anything to do with whether he likes Dean or not, because even after everything, he would still be trying to get on Dean’s good side, because that’s what he does. But he been to the alternate dimension. He’s seen what Michael is capable of. He’s lived through the aftermath. And he knows that if Michael gets his way, he’ll do the same thing to their world. And if they can’t get Michael out of Dean, they have to take them both down. When it comes to Dean’s life vs the lives of 7 billion, they have to sacrifice them, and Jack knows that. Hell, Sam and Cas should, too. It’s exactly what happened at the end of season five. And god knows Dean would be on board with it. He would sooner die that be an angel’s bitch, especially if it’s an archangel, and especially if he’ll be used to kill people. He was willing to sacrifice himself when he had the Mark of Cain, and he would now, too. It was Sam’s insistence that he couldn’t lose his brother that let the darkness out. If he isn’t willing to risk Dean this time, there’s just going to be more problems. Apparently, Jack is the only one who can use his brain.
Thank you!
I also want to add, if I may…
JACK IS A BABY NEPHILIM. WHO HAS HAD A VERY TRAUMATIC LIFE SO FAR. He’s learning how to be family from the sons of John Winchester, and Cas. It’s gonna be bumpy.
What Jack said wasn’t materially incorrect. His mistake is coming at it from a black and white perspective. But that is a pretty common sin of youth and inexperience. And he’s being forced to cope with his own powerlessness in a very literal sense.
Of course Cas was hurt by it and disagrees, but that’s not where the storyline ends guys. They’re gonna say more stuff about it. That wasn’t the series finale.
I agree like 99% with gabrielsbackbitches. There’s a few trivial points not even worth contending that are mostly arbitrary to even handle, but really, when it comes down to it-
We had grieving widower or grieving wibroer Dean, take your pick of interpretation. Lashing out in pain at an “easy target” who was, at that point, still an extraneous addition to the unit and only really taken to family by Castiel, who was dead and thus Dean blamed even the idea of Jack and JackAsFamily on that… that’s human. I really don’t care what extreme stans in any direction think about it. I don’t care if it’s Jack stans that are mad for not being treated like a squish or a branch of Dean girls that think Dean was just being mean and the writers hate him and want everyone to hate him – realistically, this was incredibly human. And despite all of this rage, Dean was also still human enough that, before Cas came back, he saw Jack self mutilating and surged to stop him. Yes, he still promised to kill him if he went dark side. Remember that. But even while full of vitriol and blame for him, he stepped in to stop that, then realized who/what he was looking at, put up his wall of hurt and protection, and dropped that fateful line everyone lost their shit about. Again, remember that line. I’ll * it.
Then, yes, as said, Cas came back. Dean came back around and lightened it up about 234293490 scale. But in that time, Dean already started on trying to communicate with him. Jack got AU’ed, came back, and in NO scale did he stop trying to fit in, feel a place to belong, and definitely didn’t suddenly stop trying to appeal to Dean. And by the end of the season, we had outright dad!Dean setting in with attempted heartfelt talks and connections.
So Dean isn’t AUed, but he IS Michaeled. And while Dean has seen all the evils Lucifer is capable of, Jack has seen all of the evils Michael is capable of. Jack isn’t necessarily a grieving wibroer, that would be Cas. But Jack is looking at the same situation in reverse. * AND WHAT DID DEAN SHOW HIM THEN? Reflexive understanding, but * * * * *
13.2
DEAN You know, my brother thinks you can be saved. JACK You don’t believe that. DEAN No, I don’t. JACK So… if you’re right? DEAN If I’m right… and it comes to killing you… I’ll be the one to do it.
You want story symmetry? IT’S EPISODE 2-2.
14.2
[Jack and Cas are discussing what happens if Dean can’t be saved] JACK And if that doesn’t work? CAS Jack- JACK Cas, Michael has to be stopped. CAS I know, and he will be, after Dean is – JACK No, Dean doesn’t matter. You’re all so focused on trying to save Dean. And I get it, I understand, but if he can’t be saved? If it comes down to him or Michael… Michael has to be stopped. Caged, or killed. CAS And if that means that Dean dies too?! JACK Then Dean dies. I know this Michael, I’ve seen what he’s done to an entire world. And so have you. If stopping that from happening here means that Dean has to die then… …Do you think he’d want it any other way? [Cas is left speechless]
So let’s strip this down.
CAS lists a huge amount of hopes that Dean can be okay, like Sam and Cas with Jack. / DEAN You know, my brother thinks you can be saved.
JACK And if that doesn’t work? / JACK You don’t believe that.
CAS DEFENSIVELY argues Dean’s case. / JACK So… if you’re right?
JACK Then Dean dies. […] If stopping that from happening here means that Dean has to die then… / DEAN If I’m right… and it comes to killing you… I’ll be the one to do it.
And JACK ISN’T EVEN WRONG. At this point it’s Cas thinks Dean can be saved. Jack doesn’t entirely believe that. Cas is left feeling Jack’s fallout while Jack mirrors Dean’s position directly, in an experience a year old child just had as part of his forming purpose, but even then, let’s not forget that JACK. IS. RIGHT. And Cas KNOWS IT. Not just because we saw it on his face. Because. Because The Things We Left Behind.
10.09
DEAN Cas, I need you to promise me something.
CASTIEL Of course.
DEAN If I do go dark side, you got to take me out.
CASTIEL What do you mean?
DEAN Knife me. Smite me. Throw me into the freakin’ sun, whatever. And don’t let Sam get in the way, because he’ll try. I can’t go down that road again, man.
Cas is fucking speechless because Jack is so fucking right but he still can’t let it go. He’s been told this, to his face by Dean before. A similar issue – but about Dean becoming something, someone, other than who he is.
But 13.02/14.02 are literally direct story symmetry and expecting Jack to be as sentimental about Dean, DESPITE wanting to appeal to him, DESPITE Dean coming around about him, is just wildly disconnected from reality. Look, I don’t often devil’s advocate in defense of BuckLeming scripts, and even this script had its problems, but they have very, very clearly echoed back their own previous work from 13.02 to-the-T, while maintaining a vein/promise originally penned by Dabb in 10.09, and Dabb’s showrunning right now soOoOoo?
Of all the shit people could/should be complaining about in a BuckLeming episode, this ain’t it, fam.
Because as far as Jack can perceive – this is what he’s been shown is the right thing to do. This IS what Dean would want. Lucifer and Michael are not so far removed, despite being dualistic opposites. Lucifer was Dean’s great evil and Michael was Jack’s. And Jack isn’t even wrong reading into that from Dean. And Cas knows it.
Jack wants Dean’s approval? You think he’s gonna imagine himself getting it by laissez-faire letting Dean run around subject to Michael doing horrible things? As far as Jack can even see for Dean’s approval, this is the path to take.
Sales are dropping at the Coffee Spoon, and Mat is looking for a way to drive new customers to the shop. Thank goodness the rest of the neighborhood is filled to the brim with enough seasoned craftsmen of the film industry to create the best local ad Maple Bay has ever seen! Just kidding, have you ever asked a Dad to take a picture of you? What can we say? The Dads and their kids try their best.
@casgirlsam ILU and everyone should love you and you’re a great inclusive Sam fan and a great friend.
This chick’s first thought on “if I had a billion dollars” was to buy me a better computer for production work and then like five minutes later turned around and called me a great director and she’s just
i lOVE hER and everyone should loVE hER.
Seriously. She’s good people. If you like me, you’ll like her. She’s also sort of trained in the art of understanding numbers and ratings, my young padawan, so she’s a great second go-to if I’m ever unresponsive, she’s a good source for Sam content that isn’t attached to a pillar of wank, she’s just a good bean, so, let me plug this chick right here and right now.
DAMN IT, WOMAN, DON’T MAKE ME CRY RIGHT BEFORE BED
dude you’re like the most organized person when it comes to this stuff it blows my mind that you can keep people on point and not let them ramble and pull stuff out of the quiet ones. even at work, that’s my one thing i have issues with so doing interviews with you is helping improve my life elsewhere. this month, my scores on “rapport building” (for those not in the know, i work in a call center) were more than DOUBLE because i’m picking stuff up, slowly but surely, from you.
AND YOU TOTES DESERVE NEW TECH
ALSO THANK YOU, FREN
i try to be as non-wanktastic and non-offense as possible with my sam content because it’s what sam deserves, god damn it. jared too. we needs as many good sam content people as possible around here.
anyone following me that isn’t following the above awesome person should do so especially if you like meta and talks about numbers
doooo iiiiittttt
I’m so glad I follow you both terrific people!
I don’t work with you like I do chriss, but I see you and like you too. You’re one of those regulars in my notifs that I’m like “I should probably talk to them more” but if I’m not running around pretending to be a socially functioning individual on a live broadcast I am a tiny hermit that holes up and doesn’t start conversations i just yell unaddressed into the internet sksksksk
which is ironic because you’re the one that got me to be more social and active pretty much every where lmao
i only ever used twitter for spn live tweets and all of a sudden last year here comes some rando (you lol) which weirded me out at first because no one in the fandom ever talked to me unless i talked to them first
and that’s how i went from not ever talking to anyone ever to having several friends and people i talk to daily.
i’m glad that i can help improve your life with my assitance on cult fans and i’m thankful you’ve been really helpful to me elsewhere 😀
@casgirlsam ILU and everyone should love you and you’re a great inclusive Sam fan and a great friend.
This chick’s first thought on “if I had a billion dollars” was to buy me a better computer for production work and then like five minutes later turned around and called me a great director and she’s just
i lOVE hER and everyone should loVE hER.
Seriously. She’s good people. If you like me, you’ll like her. She’s also sort of trained in the art of understanding numbers and ratings, my young padawan, so she’s a great second go-to if I’m ever unresponsive, she’s a good source for Sam content that isn’t attached to a pillar of wank, she’s just a good bean, so, let me plug this chick right here and right now.
DAMN IT, WOMAN, DON’T MAKE ME CRY RIGHT BEFORE BED
dude you’re like the most organized person when it comes to this stuff it blows my mind that you can keep people on point and not let them ramble and pull stuff out of the quiet ones. even at work, that’s my one thing i have issues with so doing interviews with you is helping improve my life elsewhere. this month, my scores on “rapport building” (for those not in the know, i work in a call center) were more than DOUBLE because i’m picking stuff up, slowly but surely, from you.
AND YOU TOTES DESERVE NEW TECH
ALSO THANK YOU, FREN
i try to be as non-wanktastic and non-offense as possible with my sam content because it’s what sam deserves, god damn it. jared too. we needs as many good sam content people as possible around here.
anyone following me that isn’t following the above awesome person should do so especially if you like meta and talks about numbers
AAVSL (African American Venacular Sign Language) is wild because you really see the culture in it and if you are Black and hearing/don’t know ASL, you still understand it because so much of black communicatiom is nonverbal
Reblogging again because I didn’t know AAVE had a sign language equivalent even though now it makes so much sense.
Death is the termination of all biological functions that sustain a living organism.
~The Rebuttal: Does Castiel look dead to you?
So unmoving,
he doesn’t bleed
or have bodily functions
If he’s already dead, he can’t die AGAIN.
~But, you say, He doesn’t have a SOUL!
~Neither did Sam, for the year in between ‘Swan Song’ and ‘Exile on Main Street’, and for the first half of Season 6.
Was Sam dead? A corpse? Was every sexual encounter he had during that time necrophilia?
*update*
When Metatron took Castiel’s Grace in 8×23, he mentioned Castiel’s SOUL:
METATRON
And now something wonderful is going to happen, for me and for you. I want you to live this new life to the fullest. Find a wife. Make babies. And when you die and your soul comes to Heaven, find me. Tell me your story.
~Okay, okay. But he’s the reanimated dead!
~Oh, hon. Then every ship involving Sam (after All Hell Breaks Loose) and Dean (After No Rest for The Wicked -Wait, does Mystery Spot count?) is also necrophilia, because they are literally brought back to life after being quite dead. Repeatedly. Thus, Sam and Dean are now currently the reanimated dead.
I don’t see you complaining so hard about any other ship with Sam or Dean involved.
Next argument?
-Mod L
Expanded thanks to new canon as of Season 11
Castiel was able to say YES to Lucifer. Therefore, THE BODY IS HIS.
Is it a Retcon? a problem with Continuity? Doesn’t Matter.
Castiel’s body was RECREATED BY GOD after Jimmy’s body got vaporized, and Jimmy’s soul went to Heaven.
If Castiel was able to say yes to Lucifer, then it’s HIS LIVING BODY and thus Destiel is NOT NECROPHILIA.
Update for all the haters in the back:
11×20 CONFIRMED that it was GOD who put Cas back together all those times. GOD DID IT.
If God put Cas back together, how can he be a corpse? How can that NOT be Castiel’s own body by now?
REBUILT. Castiel is not inhabiting a corpse. God rebuilt the body for Castiel’s use.
-Canon. Telling haters where to stick it since… whenever.
So who’s going to update this post with the common sense dumbasses lack to explain that just because Cas mentioned Jimmy died does not mean the body is dead any more than it meant it when it was previously clarified rebuilt, human without grace, and alive? Because you know they’re going to try to be that dumb and try to take Nick’s repressive murderous temper tantrum as any bearing on canon above this, or that somehow it suddenly means he’s dead-now even though he was alive-after-Jimmy-died, but you know. Logic what is.
Dean: Cas, get in my bed … I mean head! Give me head, Cas– wait, no, I mean, bed me, Cas. Uh shit, no just uh … get in my bed and give me head, wait– no DAMNIT! I just meant…
Sam: Cas, just read his fucking mind so he’ll shut up.
Leighton Gray, Vernon Shaw
Chriss’ Home of Gifs, Squee, and Fandom Issues 