intelligentshipper:

casgirlsam:

intelligentshipper:

casgirlsam:

gencest:

dotthings:

dotthings:

Okay, about this “g*ncest” thing that just cropped up which makes me feel like I splintered back to the year 2006 and aren’t we over this by now…what that is is a bona fide example of toxic masculinity attitudes at work and being valorized by a small number of fans, mostly female.

Keep reading

Adding onto this, because I apparently missed a whole extra limb of this that’s actually patronizing and devaluing genfic. The g*ncest enthusiasts think the -cest has to be tacked on otherwise it won’t be emotionally intense enough and this is why the term was created and g*ncest is just gen but emotionally intense enough and what the hell did I just read

Keep reading

Adding onto this, because I apparently missed a whole extra limb of this that’s actually patronizing and devaluing genfic. The g*ncest enthusiasts think the -cest has to be tacked on otherwise it won’t be emotionally intense enough

That actually wasn’t written anywhere on our social media as it true! You can actually go back and check if you like. Please do not put false words in our mouths. The -cest was added on to show that it’s Sam and Dean specific gen.

and this is why the term was created and g*ncest is just gen but emotionally intense enough and what the hell did I just read

I would like to know that as well, because a lot of false statements are being thrown around here. Do you have a link? Because pretty much everyone knows the -cest in Gencest means Sam & Dean and it’s borrowed from the romantic pairing name of Sam and Dean. 

how did you even find this post?

secondly, idgaf what y’all wanna describe it as, adding -cest to everything sam&dean is not ok if it’s not supposed to be incestuous.

“pretty much everyone knows”

nope nah uh they don’t. everyone i’ve come across is confused af. and just because some may know that, it doesn’t make it ok nor does it make SENSE.

also if it’s supposed to be about their bond, why did you tell my friend that it isn’t for her and why did someone else tell me the same thing? that’s exclusionary and indicates that something incestuous is happening.

“Pretty much everybody knows,” they defend, while over the course of 14 years of fandom there’s only been 421 mentions of it anywhere google is capable of data-mining. Compared to say, 500K+ W*ncest mentions or heading towards 7 million Destiel mentions. Of course, stalking mentions didn’t help them find this post where all of this old guard concept already got laid on its ass.

You’re from a small lane of W*ncest shippers that have tried repeatedly to find ways to destigmatize the *ncest element and failed pretty swimmingly. You’re going to end up with the same crowd you have every time. This is a PG-13 *ncest fic competition, let’s not mince words, especially as once you hit any sort of romantic framing, it isn’t even gen. Hard pass.

i don’t understand why they can’t just own up to it or change the name. it can’t be both w*ncest and not.

The most ridiculous part is pretending this is some broad wash though. As I mentioned in the post I linked, even pro-W*ncest “BNF”s in that lane have been arguing “platonic *ncest” by that name, not gencest, for at least a year. People here “since the beginning”. Wild that they’re cropping up pretending this was some “all along” thing even though the internet just doesn’t have receipts of it being widespread, even on old platforms like livejournal, which I independently mined usage of and got 200~ results, mostly casual mentions, mostly from 2k12~. It’s not old guard. It’s not old fandom. It’s niche shenanigans and nothing more. They wanna write PG-13 incest? Fine, whatever fam, but call a spade a spade, stop trying to normalize it, don’t simultaneously kidnap real gen fics, this isn’t fucking hard to understand.

Call a spade a spade.

it’s a new term for spn fandom, definitely. i’ve been in quite a lot of fandoms ever since my family got dial up. i’m familiar with the term. but it’s antiquated. even the term “slash” is getting up there with being outdated because lgbt+ relationships in general in society have become much more accepted.

can you imagine destiel shippers doing this? even other destiel shippers would call it out.

gencest:

casgirlsam:

gencest:

casgirlsam:

gencest:

dotthings:

dotthings:

Okay, about this “g*ncest” thing that just cropped up which makes me feel like I splintered back to the year 2006 and aren’t we over this by now…what that is is a bona fide example of toxic masculinity attitudes at work and being valorized by a small number of fans, mostly female.

Keep reading

Adding onto this, because I apparently missed a whole extra limb of this that’s actually patronizing and devaluing genfic. The g*ncest enthusiasts think the -cest has to be tacked on otherwise it won’t be emotionally intense enough and this is why the term was created and g*ncest is just gen but emotionally intense enough and what the hell did I just read

Keep reading

Adding onto this, because I apparently missed a whole extra limb of this that’s actually patronizing and devaluing genfic. The g*ncest enthusiasts think the -cest has to be tacked on otherwise it won’t be emotionally intense enough

That actually wasn’t written anywhere on our social media as it true! You can actually go back and check if you like. Please do not put false words in our mouths. The -cest was added on to show that it’s Sam and Dean specific gen.

and this is why the term was created and g*ncest is just gen but emotionally intense enough and what the hell did I just read

I would like to know that as well, because a lot of false statements are being thrown around here. Do you have a link? Because pretty much everyone knows the -cest in Gencest means Sam & Dean and it’s borrowed from the romantic pairing name of Sam and Dean. 

how did you even find this post?

secondly, idgaf what y’all wanna describe it as, adding -cest to everything sam&dean is not ok if it’s not supposed to be incestuous.

“pretty much everyone knows”

nope nah uh they don’t. everyone i’ve come across is confused af. and just because some may know that, it doesn’t make it ok nor does it make SENSE.

also if it’s supposed to be about their bond, why did you tell my friend that it isn’t for her and why did someone else tell me the same thing? that’s exclusionary and indicates that something incestuous is happening.

When searching for gencest on twitter to encourage those talking about signing up for the Bang this was presented as a ‘I’m not piling on, but’ post that I felt warranted a level reply.

Not everyone knows what ‘smarm’ means, and different people have different definitions of anti-shipper (the one in dotthings’ post is just one, but not the most widely used). I don’t think you should use you not understanding it as evidence that others do not.

I didn’t tell dotthings it isn’t for her, she said she doesn’t like it. You are obviously upset about it, so I think it’s logical to assume you don’t like it?

I’ve already explained where the -cest comes from in Gencest and have corrected the misusage numerous times by now so I won’t reiterate, but you can look back on my other post if you didn’t see it. I will say again signing up is completely optional! You’ll never have to sign up for something that makes yo uncomfortable or doesn’t make sense to you.

“Not everyone knows what ‘smarm’ means” and that’s why dot took the time to explain it and why it’s antiquated

and signing up isn’t the issue. it’s this insistence that the suffix -cest means JUST TWO BROS. it DOESNT. y’all wanna write winc*st lite. fine by me. but own up to it or change the name.

I also took the time to explain Gencest. In fact, that’s what my entire post is about. Gencest isn’t antiquated if its still in usage, which is also what others have been complaining about.

Those who write Wincest will write Wincest, but if they’re signing up for the Gencest Bang they’ll be writing Gencest for it. I write Wincest. I’m not ashamed of that. But this isn’t Wincest, so I won’t call diamond a spade.

Did you read my post? in the portion you reblogged I made a note to say I wouldn’t explain the definition again (I explained it, I think, 5 times in the original post), but you can read the original post if you’re hankering for an explanation.

It exerts a lot of energy to respond to what you don’t initially understand with anger. It also makes things messy, as you can see.

ok, look, idk of you read everything dot wrote or what i’ve been writing literally every where here and on twitter but let me try to put it in real life terms

my sister and i have a relationship similar to sam and dean. i’m the oldest sibling that had trouble seeing how i shouldn’t defend our father’s actions. i tried to shield her from harm as much as possible growing up as we grew up in an abusive household. i’d get beat for something she did when i was supposed to be watching her. we are adults that are so close, she goes to me about topics that may be uncomfortable for siblings to discuss because she lives in a plain community (she doesn’t subscribe to most of the other ideals out of clothing and parts of religion) and she obviously can’t talk to her plain friends about it.

would you attach a -cest to that? no! so why do that with fiction?

i’m not uncomfortable with “intense emotional” fics. i LIVE it. i have a problem with you trying to dress up w*ncest as something Fandom Family Friendly

again: own up to the slash fest. don’t try to dress it up in something it isn’t.

intelligentshipper:

casgirlsam:

gencest:

dotthings:

dotthings:

Okay, about this “g*ncest” thing that just cropped up which makes me feel like I splintered back to the year 2006 and aren’t we over this by now…what that is is a bona fide example of toxic masculinity attitudes at work and being valorized by a small number of fans, mostly female.

Keep reading

Adding onto this, because I apparently missed a whole extra limb of this that’s actually patronizing and devaluing genfic. The g*ncest enthusiasts think the -cest has to be tacked on otherwise it won’t be emotionally intense enough and this is why the term was created and g*ncest is just gen but emotionally intense enough and what the hell did I just read

Keep reading

Adding onto this, because I apparently missed a whole extra limb of this that’s actually patronizing and devaluing genfic. The g*ncest enthusiasts think the -cest has to be tacked on otherwise it won’t be emotionally intense enough

That actually wasn’t written anywhere on our social media as it true! You can actually go back and check if you like. Please do not put false words in our mouths. The -cest was added on to show that it’s Sam and Dean specific gen.

and this is why the term was created and g*ncest is just gen but emotionally intense enough and what the hell did I just read

I would like to know that as well, because a lot of false statements are being thrown around here. Do you have a link? Because pretty much everyone knows the -cest in Gencest means Sam & Dean and it’s borrowed from the romantic pairing name of Sam and Dean. 

how did you even find this post?

secondly, idgaf what y’all wanna describe it as, adding -cest to everything sam&dean is not ok if it’s not supposed to be incestuous.

“pretty much everyone knows”

nope nah uh they don’t. everyone i’ve come across is confused af. and just because some may know that, it doesn’t make it ok nor does it make SENSE.

also if it’s supposed to be about their bond, why did you tell my friend that it isn’t for her and why did someone else tell me the same thing? that’s exclusionary and indicates that something incestuous is happening.

“Pretty much everybody knows,” they defend, while over the course of 14 years of fandom there’s only been 421 mentions of it anywhere google is capable of data-mining. Compared to say, 500K+ W*ncest mentions or heading towards 7 million Destiel mentions. Of course, stalking mentions didn’t help them find this post where all of this old guard concept already got laid on its ass.

You’re from a small lane of W*ncest shippers that have tried repeatedly to find ways to destigmatize the *ncest element and failed pretty swimmingly. You’re going to end up with the same crowd you have every time. This is a PG-13 *ncest fic competition, let’s not mince words, especially as once you hit any sort of romantic framing, it isn’t even gen. Hard pass.

i don’t understand why they can’t just own up to it or change the name. it can’t be both w*ncest and not.

gencest:

casgirlsam:

gencest:

dotthings:

dotthings:

Okay, about this “g*ncest” thing that just cropped up which makes me feel like I splintered back to the year 2006 and aren’t we over this by now…what that is is a bona fide example of toxic masculinity attitudes at work and being valorized by a small number of fans, mostly female.

Keep reading

Adding onto this, because I apparently missed a whole extra limb of this that’s actually patronizing and devaluing genfic. The g*ncest enthusiasts think the -cest has to be tacked on otherwise it won’t be emotionally intense enough and this is why the term was created and g*ncest is just gen but emotionally intense enough and what the hell did I just read

Keep reading

Adding onto this, because I apparently missed a whole extra limb of this that’s actually patronizing and devaluing genfic. The g*ncest enthusiasts think the -cest has to be tacked on otherwise it won’t be emotionally intense enough

That actually wasn’t written anywhere on our social media as it true! You can actually go back and check if you like. Please do not put false words in our mouths. The -cest was added on to show that it’s Sam and Dean specific gen.

and this is why the term was created and g*ncest is just gen but emotionally intense enough and what the hell did I just read

I would like to know that as well, because a lot of false statements are being thrown around here. Do you have a link? Because pretty much everyone knows the -cest in Gencest means Sam & Dean and it’s borrowed from the romantic pairing name of Sam and Dean. 

how did you even find this post?

secondly, idgaf what y’all wanna describe it as, adding -cest to everything sam&dean is not ok if it’s not supposed to be incestuous.

“pretty much everyone knows”

nope nah uh they don’t. everyone i’ve come across is confused af. and just because some may know that, it doesn’t make it ok nor does it make SENSE.

also if it’s supposed to be about their bond, why did you tell my friend that it isn’t for her and why did someone else tell me the same thing? that’s exclusionary and indicates that something incestuous is happening.

When searching for gencest on twitter to encourage those talking about signing up for the Bang this was presented as a ‘I’m not piling on, but’ post that I felt warranted a level reply.

Not everyone knows what ‘smarm’ means, and different people have different definitions of anti-shipper (the one in dotthings’ post is just one, but not the most widely used). I don’t think you should use you not understanding it as evidence that others do not.

I didn’t tell dotthings it isn’t for her, she said she doesn’t like it. You are obviously upset about it, so I think it’s logical to assume you don’t like it?

I’ve already explained where the -cest comes from in Gencest and have corrected the misusage numerous times by now so I won’t reiterate, but you can look back on my other post if you didn’t see it. I will say again signing up is completely optional! You’ll never have to sign up for something that makes yo uncomfortable or doesn’t make sense to you.

“Not everyone knows what ‘smarm’ means” and that’s why dot took the time to explain it and why it’s antiquated

and signing up isn’t the issue. it’s this insistence that the suffix -cest means JUST TWO BROS. it DOESNT. y’all wanna write winc*st lite. fine by me. but own up to it or change the name.

gencest:

dotthings:

dotthings:

Okay, about this “g*ncest” thing that just cropped up which makes me feel like I splintered back to the year 2006 and aren’t we over this by now…what that is is a bona fide example of toxic masculinity attitudes at work and being valorized by a small number of fans, mostly female.

Keep reading

Adding onto this, because I apparently missed a whole extra limb of this that’s actually patronizing and devaluing genfic. The g*ncest enthusiasts think the -cest has to be tacked on otherwise it won’t be emotionally intense enough and this is why the term was created and g*ncest is just gen but emotionally intense enough and what the hell did I just read

Keep reading

Adding onto this, because I apparently missed a whole extra limb of this that’s actually patronizing and devaluing genfic. The g*ncest enthusiasts think the -cest has to be tacked on otherwise it won’t be emotionally intense enough

That actually wasn’t written anywhere on our social media as it true! You can actually go back and check if you like. Please do not put false words in our mouths. The -cest was added on to show that it’s Sam and Dean specific gen.

and this is why the term was created and g*ncest is just gen but emotionally intense enough and what the hell did I just read

I would like to know that as well, because a lot of false statements are being thrown around here. Do you have a link? Because pretty much everyone knows the -cest in Gencest means Sam & Dean and it’s borrowed from the romantic pairing name of Sam and Dean. 

how did you even find this post?

secondly, idgaf what y’all wanna describe it as, adding -cest to everything sam&dean is not ok if it’s not supposed to be incestuous.

“pretty much everyone knows”

nope nah uh they don’t. everyone i’ve come across is confused af. and just because some may know that, it doesn’t make it ok nor does it make SENSE.

also if it’s supposed to be about their bond, why did you tell my friend that it isn’t for her and why did someone else tell me the same thing? that’s exclusionary and indicates that something incestuous is happening.

dotthings:

dotthings:

Okay, about this “g*ncest” thing that just cropped up which makes me feel like I splintered back to the year 2006 and aren’t we over this by now…what that is is a bona fide example of toxic masculinity attitudes at work and being valorized by a small number of fans, mostly female.

Keep reading

Adding onto this, because I apparently missed a whole extra limb of this that’s actually patronizing and devaluing genfic. The g*ncest enthusiasts think the -cest has to be tacked on otherwise it won’t be emotionally intense enough and this is why the term was created and g*ncest is just gen but emotionally intense enough and what the hell did I just read

Keep reading

i mean that’s why the person that told me that it wasn’t for me said it wasn’t for me. because it’s slash but they don’t want to say it is. like you said, they want to have their slash cake and eat it too. that’s not how this works. it’s either slash or it isn’t.

dotthings:

Okay, about this “g*ncest” thing that just cropped up which makes me feel like I splintered back to the year 2006 and aren’t we over this by now…what that is is a bona fide example of toxic masculinity attitudes at work and being valorized by a small number of fans, mostly female.

Keep reading

THIS THIS THIS ALL OF THIS

there are some of your points i want to add on, so bear with me

“It’s toxic masculinity to slap the -cest slapping on every-freakin’-thing and then claim you’re being ship-shamed because you actually gate-keeped against fans who really just appreciate the sibling bond and don’t need any -cest to appreciate how close Sam and Dean are and appreciate that bond […] This should be also true of w*ncest fans and enthusiasts of the sibling bond because again, massive emotional component as common ground, but I feel like what’s happening is the more intense and virulent w*ncest fans are trying to draw such a hard line that if you aren’t into incest, there’s no space for you”

this is this absolute kicker. i JUST this morning got told that the gen pairing of sam and dean probably isn’t for me because i objected to genc*st. literally all i objected to was the name.

it’s supposed to be gen fic about their bond, but it’s not for me. that’s so depressingly exclusionary, that’s genuinely the first time someone in this fandom almost made me tear up over something hurtful they said to me. because how dare they tell me that something that’s not supposed to be incestuous NOT BE FOR ME.

and when i tried to defend my point?

no one specifically reached out to me and scared me off of it. hell, w*ncest the concept actually legit made me not watch the show until 2013 because i googled around and i’m that weirdo that reads fics from fandoms i’m not in yet just to get a feel for it and let’s just say this was pre-ao3 tag days. not fun.

i just gave up one day and said “screw it”. they shouldn’t dictate what i enjoy just because i don’t want *ncest in my damn bro bond experience.

and they say d*stiel fans hate their bro bond but i legit can’t read fics where sam isn’t involved or where one of the bros is being a complete ass to the other or their partner (for example there was a canon-verse sabriel fic where dean yells at mute gabe to talk and is constantly mad about it and dean would never do that to a trauma-induced mute person).

hell, i just discovered today when i joined the fandom that i had reblogged a post from nancy talking about how sam wasn’t going to make a deal with crowley to save dean from being a demon, he was going to fight tooth and nail to save him. i clearly care.

“and here’s the ironic part: virulently anti-destiel w*ncest fans and ship shamey non-shippers slapped D*stiel with a default assumption that it’s all about fapping material and two dudes getting it on and you just want to make spn into a porno”

what’s funny is that i and others like me can’t write anything above a T-rating because we aren’t comfortable doing that.

also it’s 2018, not 2000. we all have access to internet which means we have access to porn. if i wanted to watch to hot guys have sex, i would just watch that ffs. this talking point is so old, i was a teen when i saw it for the first time and i’m in my 30s now.

ugh. i need to go wash this off with some fic. preferably one with their bond that isn’t slapped with a freaking -cest label.

The Destiel Agenda League

intelligentshipper:

Got a hilarious screencap sent my way. Apparently I made some short, presumably elite-tinhat-hate-focus list of problems-in-the-fandom according to tinhats, like some sort of Destiel Avengers. Bronly Things, SuperWiki, Lua (? doesn’t she leave them alone? Is she a shipper? Does she even go here?), Emily, and me! Apparently the fandom sees us as HEROES. WHY DIDN’T ANYONE TELL ME?

I’m so good I hid my secret hero alias from MYSELF

Are we Marvel or DC

I wanna either be Iron Man or Batman

Can we get a poster

Rofl I can’t.

image

Yes, they legitimately think this is about “killing gay rumors” and not about shutting up cantankerous asshats that besiege the cast, crew, families and friends of the people they obsess over.

Once again wildly missing the point of everything.

Hasn’t… Emily… been gone… for years?

image

“she’s one of the people responsible for the current climate”

i wasn’t aware only a handful of people including an ex-fan that only talks about issues when people drag her back into them could be single-handedly responsible for fandom attitude change. see, i thought it was because collectively, people are tired of their bullshit. my b.

“they tried to kill gay rumors”

yeah how dare we call out people who call gen, danneel, and j2’s other family and friends slurs on a daily. clearly we only care about squashing gay rumors about jared and jensen while also a group of us coo over how gay jensen and misha are together

*rubs temples*

intelligentshipper:

You know. I’ve not been quiet about my distaste for W*ncest. But I’ve also not been in any way unclear, you enjoy whatever kinks or whatever you want in your own corner. If they’re trigger topics, tag it and bag it but enjoy it where it’s safe, same way you don’t watch r*pe videos in public. Like it’s not hard to have basic human decency.

But this new movement to try to de-fetishize W*ncest to the public is hinging in the realm of absurdity at this point. First people talking about “platonic W*ncest” for the last year (and I don’t think I need to explain to anyone how that literally doesn’t work, because *ncest is literally sexual engagement between closely related family members, and without sexuality, it’s just… being family), now “Gencest Bang” being endorsed by Wiki and, when asked what the fuck that even means by most people, trying to come back with some OH ITS OLD FANDOM GUARD garbage.

No fam. It’s old niche W*ncest lane garbage cycling back.

SuperWiki and GencestBang are really out here arguing GenCest as some widely received ancient fandom thing for “platonic”.
Less than 2 pages on Ao3 (2 works 05-06, a few 2012, mostly 2015+)
3 works on DA (all by the same account in 2k16)
2 works on FF.net (2016, 2017)

I’ll give there’s 211 calls on LJ, most of which are around 2k12. Half asking for them and not finding. A few trying to MAKE all S&D fics Gencest to match up to DeanCas fics.

There are 421 calls total, on the entire fucking internet, including duplicates and casual mentions, if you google search “Gencest” and “Supernatural” together with quotes to ensure both words are used (so you’re not pulling, I don’t know, some crackheads in another fandom pulling the same shit. “Gencest” without the word Supernatural returns 2,240 results – and lo and behold, the tag leads to My Little Ponies making out without “Supernatural” attached.)

To scale that, running the same search on “Destiel” and “Supernatural” returns approx 6,460,000 results. [or roughly 15,357x the usage] (without “Supernatural” since I gave Gencest that argument, I just pulled 9,230,000 results. Only Destiel is an SPN-fandom-unique-word, unlike theirs. Again.) I think google just gave up. 

(”W*ncest” [minus * obv] and “Supernatural” together returns 579,000 results. I’m not searching W*ncest without, because it’s a term general *ncest folks use which is why the hashtag’s most closely associated words are things like “Tits” and “milfs”) (Again, to scale that to W*ncest or Destiel usage with “Supernatural” included, that’s less than 9% the spoken usage of Destiel)

Basically, some tiny niche now thinking itself as old fandom guard maybe 20 strong at its peak, and I do mean its peak (while choosing to be absurdly generous that all 420~ mentions are “old time” despite the above info), might have used the fucking term and half tried to kidnap true Sam and Dean gen into it for most of its mentions and that’s it.

Let’s not play games, guys. If you’re still incorporating an *ncest element but just doing pull-the-curtain like you’re editing it for primetime non-premium TV channels, that’s still fucking *ncest, you dumb motherfuckers. The same way if a curtain pulls in a DeanCas fic that is otherwise romantic or possibly suggestive, it’s still a queer romance Destiel fic, and also isn’t Gen.

THAT ISN’T GEN.

YOU LITERALLY CAN NOT HAVE GEN *NCEST.

THIS ISN’T FUCKING HARD.

STOP trying to act like you’re not normalizing *ncest. If you want to fap out to it, or kink out to it, or read it, or whatever, do it. But playing dance-around-the-words isn’t going to change what it fucking is, holy shit. No, *ncest will never be able to be painted platonically, even if you pull the curtain on coitus, because that’s still not platonic. A bromance without actual romance is gen. A bromance is not sexual, ergo it is not *ncest. Once you’re playing into Single Bed tropes but keeping it “clean” to the reading eye doesn’t make it magically not *ncest, and magically gen, any more than a PG-13 written fic of any other ship that still implies beyond it is Gen. 

I mean, if you want to play that game, everyone can just tag anything whatever the hell they want, and Dean and Cas can make oogly eyes and awkward touches and internal thoughts about their feelings and share a single bed and we can pretend that’s not a Destiel romantic fic and play that it’s Gen? NO. We can’t. No ship can. Not W*ncest, not “Gencest” whatever the fuck that is. 

Don’t even compare it to BroTP either, because they tried, and that’s not what BroTP is, either. BroTP is a pairing, nonsexualized and non romantic, that make a true pair duo. This isn’t fucking difficult, what the fuck? Maybe you’ve literally just been drinking the *ncest Kool-aid so fucking long you can’t discern that Bro-TP or brothers aren’t the same as *ncest. I don’t fucking know.

Fucking look.

Keep reading

idk what bother me more: not giving a fuck that words don’t work like that or lying to people

i have no doubt in my mind that they know what they’re doing. they’re not dumb.