Me: I’m actually going to wear this burgundy motif forever and never wash it but thanks
*
Jonothan: when was the last time you showered
Me: idk you tell me
*
Karamo: I can tell that you use humor as a self defense mechanism and you project about a lot of things that you claim not to care about. Even though you think you don’t have feelings anymore, you still do, and you’ve found bad ways to cope with that. You’ve placed your self-worth in karaoke but you should place it in something better. Don’t be afraid to let yourself open up
Okay, about this “g*ncest” thing that just cropped up which makes me feel like I splintered back to the year 2006 and aren’t we over this by now…what that is is a bona fide example of toxic masculinity attitudes at work and being valorized by a small number of fans, mostly female.
I was largely ignoring the discourse around this—some people don’t understand the term, or they don’t like Wincest and react angrily to anything dealing with it or its shippers—but this was presented as “I know we should be over this and here’s why,” so let me write a rebuttal.
This will also act as a way to talk about the genre a little bit more for those who may not understand.
Dear Gencest Mod Thank you for such a well reasoned and patient rebuttal.
I 100% endorse everything you’ve said here, and admire that you stayed completely objective throughout. I would also point out that the term gencest is not something that has just suddenly popped up, it’s certainly been around for as long as I’ve been in SPN fandom (c2009).
Thank you! I try not to get engaged with fandom wank, but the misinformation of both the term and our intentions, and how disproportionately angry folks appear to be over it confused the heck outta me, ha!
You’re totally correct in Gencest’s history (though I think it may go back even to the beginning of the fandom c2005/c2006) and that’s what matters. This fic writing challenge is for people who already love Gencest and I’ll be focusing on just that from now on.
Besdies, knowing our dear fandom, something will happen at a con and the old drama machine will move on from a tiny fic challenge.
It should surprised exactly nobody that someone from a certain fanbase is throwing tantrums even about a gen ficathon and also still trying to make it all about THEIR ship and bawwww feel sorry for how we’re badly WE’RE treated. It’s like clockwork with them.
we’ve been perfectly calm and reasonable.
you are also missing the point and deciding that this is about a ship war. no one gives a shit about whether it’s w*ncest or not. people don’t want triggery ships thrown in their face. the issue also is this
if this big bang isn’t for people who love the bro bond minus the *ncest, it’s NOT gen
y’all wanna write w*ncest lite, have at it! tag appropriately and call the spade a spade. i couldn’t care less that you ship it, truly.
i love the bro bond, as do most people. the issue here isn’t some ship war or hate for the bros. we just don’t want -cest slapped onto everything to do with sam&dean and we especially don’t appreciate this insistence that -cest means something other than *ncest
Ah yes, gen that is but isn’t gen and incest that is but isn’t incest but is totally not incest and totally for the incesters but totally gen, but incest. And they don’t see why people have issue with its tagging. Tagging is designed to keep people safe. Intentionally circumventing them, trying to make it ambiguous – just like this ridiculous dance-about word play – is incredibly cruel to people who have efficiently blotted it out of their feeds. Yes. Cruel. Just because a few people got away with calling it that on a back corner blog – emphasis on a few, a whole 2 fics 2005-6, 3 by 1 person on DA 2 years ago and a few smattered around – doesn’t mean it should be promoted and highlighted as a new, brighter, shinier way to circumvent proper tagging.
You want to write non-explicit Wincest? Go for it! That’s great. You want to write explicit incest? Go for it! Just tag your ship appropriately. But it’s not not-incest because they’re not explicitly fucking in the Impala, and if that’s where your vision of “gen” is, it honestly explains a fuck of a lot of things.
This just in guys, go ahead and write your nonexplicit DeanCas romance and suggestive fics as gen. Works by their standard. Seeing as DeanCas has one of the lowest explicit rankings on Ao3, that qualifies most of their work as “gen” by this new, shiny, ridiculous standard. And seeing as DeanCas isn’t a r*pe or *ncest ship or other similar trigger, you’re actually not impeding nearly as much. Have at it. DeanCas up that gen. Because clearly, gencest thinks if it isn’t explicit it’s gen, apparently.
exactly! for example, i wrote a sabriel fic that didn’t have kisses or sex and only a slight hint of romance and was only a bit more than what’s show canon. but i was honest and i tagged it sabriel because that’s what i intended it to be.
“Look, man, we’d probably most of us agree that these are dark times, and stupid ones, but do we need fiction that does nothing but dramatize how dark and stupid everything is? In dark times, the definition of good art would seem to be art that locates and applies CPR to those elements of what’s human and magical that still live and glow despite the times’ darkness. Really good fiction could have as dark a worldview as it wished, but it’d find a way both to depict this world and to illuminate the possibilities for being alive and human in it.”
Okay, about this “g*ncest” thing that just cropped up which makes me feel like I splintered back to the year 2006 and aren’t we over this by now…what that is is a bona fide example of toxic masculinity attitudes at work and being valorized by a small number of fans, mostly female.
I was largely ignoring the discourse around this—some people don’t understand the term, or they don’t like Wincest and react angrily to anything dealing with it or its shippers—but this was presented as “I know we should be over this and here’s why,” so let me write a rebuttal.
This will also act as a way to talk about the genre a little bit more for those who may not understand.
Dear Gencest Mod Thank you for such a well reasoned and patient rebuttal.
I 100% endorse everything you’ve said here, and admire that you stayed completely objective throughout. I would also point out that the term gencest is not something that has just suddenly popped up, it’s certainly been around for as long as I’ve been in SPN fandom (c2009).
Thank you! I try not to get engaged with fandom wank, but the misinformation of both the term and our intentions, and how disproportionately angry folks appear to be over it confused the heck outta me, ha!
You’re totally correct in Gencest’s history (though I think it may go back even to the beginning of the fandom c2005/c2006) and that’s what matters. This fic writing challenge is for people who already love Gencest and I’ll be focusing on just that from now on.
Besdies, knowing our dear fandom, something will happen at a con and the old drama machine will move on from a tiny fic challenge.
It should surprised exactly nobody that someone from a certain fanbase is throwing tantrums even about a gen ficathon and also still trying to make it all about THEIR ship and bawwww feel sorry for how we’re badly WE’RE treated. It’s like clockwork with them.
we’ve been perfectly calm and reasonable.
you are also missing the point and deciding that this is about a ship war. no one gives a shit about whether it’s w*ncest or not. people don’t want triggery ships thrown in their face. the issue also is this
if this big bang isn’t for people who love the bro bond minus the *ncest, it’s NOT gen
y’all wanna write w*ncest lite, have at it! tag appropriately and call the spade a spade. i couldn’t care less that you ship it, truly.
i love the bro bond, as do most people. the issue here isn’t some ship war or hate for the bros. we just don’t want -cest slapped onto everything to do with sam&dean and we especially don’t appreciate this insistence that -cest means something other than *ncest
I SHOULD BE SLEEPING BUT I HAD A THOUGHT AND NOW IT WONT LEAVE
so i was shutting down some negativity with a positive qt about this summary:
and i was being very “hey these bonds need a shot at forming too” (because they do and sam&cas deserve some bro time that isn’t centered around OMG WE NEED TO SAVE DEAN) when it dawned on me:
mary was paired up with sam when they split up and they talked about bobby and how she finds it hard to get him to open up cause walls
and what was she wearing?
and who ELSE do we know wears a tan coat, hmm?
me when i connected the dots
ME AN HOUR LATER AFTER IT PROCESSED:
YALL
like imagine
cas and sam are in the car driving home. sam checks in with cas, just seeing how he’s doing emotionally cause that’s sam for ya. cas tries to use the winchester f word but half way through the syllable opens up about how he wishes dean would just talk to him about his trauma and let down his walls
and sam tells him the same thing he told his mother: that if he cares about him, and he knows cas does, he’d try to get past that wall.
i’m a freakin endgame-positive shipper and i’m gobsmacked at how freaking obvious they’re being
God I don’t like speculating too positively just in case cos I get accused of winding up the fandom but there’s a real opportunity there. I mean it just makes sense at this point. I don’t even hope for or expect it all but just Cas lamenting Dean’s walls would be epic.
It’s Bucklemming so either it’ll not happen at all or it’ll be a literal spade to the face… let’s see! Let’s not forget too that season 13 started off with a similar massive bang (and season 12 was quite strong too) then petered off massively so who knows, it could also just fizzle out. Let’s see and fingers crossed it doesn’t tho 😉
Also, @tinkdw, I don’t know how this relates but I’m pretty sure that at SDCC Eugenie said she wrote lines for Cas for this episode that she really liked?? Now, this is Eugenie so this could mean everything and nothing, and I still don’t trust her in any way, but they did step up their game for 14×02 and I’m hoping that by that she means good character development lines (though I find it hard to believe Dabb would give some kind of reveal, as subtle as it might be, to Bucklemming, unless he is guiding them somehow).
Still, the Cas stuff in 14×02 was SO GOOD I can’t help but be excited about Sam and Cas finally partnering up on a case!
yeah @tinkdw i don’t want to get my hopes up either it’s just that one purposeful wardrobe choice and pairing… it’s still just so blatant, no matter what cas and sam end up discussing, that my brain just can’t let that go
i can trust what eugenie says as far as i can throw her, but i believe that it was @intelligentshipper that mentioned she writes some good cas stuff so we’ll see!
also the fact that they’re using the buddy system is the cutest.
(and this is honestly just teeny giggle worthy i thought of because when using the buddy system, dean and cas aren’t paired up LOOOL)
I was falling asleep and didn’t have the brainpower to respond to this last night, but yes to all of the above. Generaly I don’t trust Leming but for the last few years her work with Cas has been solid, 14.02 wasn’t actually a shitshow, I’m staying at “hopes high, expectations low.” But while we may be able to – say – expect some clunky dialogue out of her we may also be able to think Dabb and co went, hey Eugenie, here’s what we’re aiming for. Because it honestly feels – given I’m gauging off of 14.02 – that she’s actually playing with the other kids in the writing room this year. In my experience BL eps OFTEN have them seperated. But minding that say, Dean’s confessional, or “You look good/should rest” all came out of BL eps, I don’t think we can gauge that they hard no homo wall it – whether or not it’s on purpose or not, they have written us good content in the area before. Buck always seems to handle Dean and Eugenie always seems to handle Cas, until they do their final bond-across moments to tie the episode together.
*serves cake*
Yeah, as soon as I saw the synopsis, I delighted in what we CAN potentially get after MIRROR-loaded 14×04 and 14×05 (in that 05 was, again, giving us increasingly overt nudges as per Bobby/Mary = Dean/Cas to communicate trauma, DECONSTRUCT it, and lean on each other (aka Dean desires Cas the confidante/lover-coded textual best friend, while Cas desires Dean to open up to him) as a relational unit for psychological healing.
High hopes, low expectations, yet again, BL’s 02 was surprisingly cohesive and non-creepy.
RIGHT I WAS SHOCKED
i have a feeling it’ll be like the awkward dinner at jody’s and only because jack might mention something.
dean doesnt want to think about his family having sex. which is understandable and relatable lol
also very interesting considering that he took cas to a brothel once….
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